So, why did the C128 fail ?

LuxOFlux · April 26, 2008, 06:12 PM

The C-128 failed because commodore didn't want to produce something that competed with the Amiga. So instead of making the best machine they could they produced a compromize.

Imagine a 16-bit C128 with a adapted GEOS. What do you get? An Atari ST. The Atari St sold millions despite the Amiga.

Commodore didn't have the balls to do this. Was this the reason Tramiel left commodore?

Buying Amiga was a mistake. It didn't use any commodore technology (commodore owned the 65XX processor producer) and prevented real further development of their own line of stuff.

L

bacon · April 28, 2008, 05:45 PM

The C128 didn't fail. As Bil Herd himself has explained in this very thread, it actaully deliverd as promised. It was never meant as anything other than a last effort in the 8-bit market before the 16-bit machines took over completely.

No one knows the reasons for Tramiel's departure, but this was most probably not one of them. For one thing, devlopment on the C128 was not even started when he left in early 1984. As for the Amiga, remember that the first thing Jack Tramiel did after taking over Atari was to try to land the Amiga deal, only to see Commodore snatch it from under his nose. He had wanted to use the Amiga chipset as the base for the 16-bit Atari machines. The Atari ST was the result of a desperate need to get a 16-bit Atari out on the market as fast as possible. Of course, desperate or not, it was a very good computer -- cheap and powerful, in true Tramiel style.

Blacklord · April 28, 2008, 05:53 PM

I wonder what C= would have come out with if they'd had to design their own 16 bit machine ? Didn't they have a C900 in development that got dumped as soon as they bought Amiga ?

BigDumbDinosaur · April 29, 2008, 03:18 PM

The C900 was supposed to be UNIX powered, and in fact, the 8563 was the planned display device for that machine, if memory serves me correctly.

Commodore's main problem was Irving Gould, who was afraid to risk any money on uncharted computing waters. He was also responsible for the incredibly poor marketing of Commodore products, and was why the company ended up failing. I'm still amazed that he actually went ahead and OKed the purchase of the Amiga Computer Company. As the old joke goes, if he had been running Kentucky Fried Chicken, he would have marketed the principal product as "warm, dead bird."

airship · April 30, 2008, 12:49 AM

Much as I would have loved to have seen a 65C816-based C128 successor, I think Apple proved definitively with the Apple IIGS that the market for such machines was gone by then. The IIGS couldn't compete with their own Macintosh, and I think any next-generation CBM machine would have had to have been very much like the Amiga to succeed in the marketplace of the time. So buying the Amiga was probably CBM's best bet. The Amiga was certainly the best 1632-bit computer of its day, and it's only the fact that it was marketed as a "warm, dead bird" that killed it.

RobertB · April 30, 2008, 04:08 AM

Quote from: airship on April 30, 2008, 12:49 AM
The Amiga was certainly the best 16-bit computer of its day...

32-bit with 16-bit external data bus on the 68000 of the A1000, A500, A2000, A600, and CDTV. Full 32-bit on 68020, 68030, and 68040s of the A3000, A4000, A1200, and CD32. :-)

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/

airship · April 30, 2008, 05:10 AM

Typo. My mind was on "16-bit" because I was thinking about the 65C816 next-generation C128 I wanted so desperately.

RobertB · April 30, 2008, 11:36 AM

Quote from: airship on April 30, 2008, 05:10 AMMy mind was on "16-bit" because I was thinking about the 65C816 next-generation C128 I wanted so desperately.

:-) Well, if you have a SuperCPU 128, you now have a 65C816 for the C128.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/

airship · May 01, 2008, 01:35 AM

Can't afford $1000 for a faster C128.

RobertB · May 01, 2008, 01:52 AM

Quote from: airship on May 01, 2008, 01:35 AM
Can't afford $1000 for a faster C128.

Ah, you should have bought it back in the day. A possibility... Shaun Bebbington is having an engineer try to clone the SuperCPU with more modern components and at a lower price point. It's far in the future, but hope springs eternal.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/