Rarity

[xlar54]

Hey guys in terms of relative rarity these days, what would you consider some of the most rare Commodore hardware?

I ask because I recently came into posession of a C16, and it looks like they are somewhat hard to find.  (C65 excluded of course).  From what I can tell, the 16 and plus 4 computers (and peripherals) are relatively rare, and PET computers from the earlier line.  Any thoughts?

[Golan Klinger]

I don't think the C16 and Plus/4 are particularly rare. Sure, they're more rare than a VIC-20, 64, 64C or 128 (and there are models of the aforementioned that are more rare than others) but they're about even with the SX-64 and 128D. More rare would be the PET 2001, the SuperPET, the Commodore MAX, the 64GS and the Amiga 3000UX. The C65 is rare but since it never went into full production it isn't fair to compare it to machines that did.

You can't really use eBay prices as an indicator of rare because it attracts idiots like poop attracts flies. I guess the rarest thing of all is common sense.

[xlar54]

Indeed, your point on ebay.  Ive seen a 1571 go for $250, and recently someone posted a Vic-20 for $270... same as a Nintendo Wii...  I have seen a PET from time to time... Curious about the others on your list... what about Commodore peripherals?  REUs seem to be harder to find...lightpens... an occasional SFD-1001 or other odd drive.  And 1581s still run $100 or more quite often. I dont think they are as rare as they are desirable.  But ifyou HAD to have one item, what would you seek out?

[RobertB]

Hey guys in terms of relative rarity these days, what would you consider some of the most rare Commodore hardware?

Any of the C64 prototypes.  Of course, the Commodore LCD computer (lucky Bil Herd).  On the Amiga side, it would be the Amiga Lorraine prototype and the SX-500 (both owned by Dale Luck).  A look through Cameron Kaiser's Secret Weapons of Commodore site would turn up many unusual and rare items.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/

[Blacklord]

I don't think the C16 and Plus/4 are particularly rare. Sure, they're more rare than a VIC-20, 64, 64C or 128 (and there are models of the aforementioned that are more rare than others) but they're about even with the SX-64 and 128D. More rare would be the PET 2001, the SuperPET, the Commodore MAX, the 64GS and the Amiga 3000UX. The C65 is rare but since it never went into full production it isn't fair to compare it to machines that did.

You can't really use eBay prices as an indicator of rare because it attracts idiots like poop attracts flies. I guess the rarest thing of all is common sense.

Depends where you are - Plus4's & C16's are fairly common here in Australia, Commodore ran out an enormous number of them in packs (computer, printer, floppy drive) in around '84. The carry bags are great, I have a few of 'em, nice & large.

PET's are reasonably common, but not the SuperPET - I've never seen one here 'in the flesh', I know of one person who owns one.

Amiga computers of all ilk are common here - I think Australia was the strongest market for Commodore (both 8 & 16 bit). Certainly there are always a zillion A500's & A2000's up on eBay Aust.

Actually, the hardest Commodore "machines" for me to find (here at least) are the calculators, every single one I've got came from either the UK or the USA.

Lance

[xlar54]

Interesting that Amigas are more common there.  In the US, they are known, but I wouldnt say they are common.  Apple and IBM really had most of the early market here.  Commodore 8-bits were everywhere,but it was stuck.  Commodore was considered the toy computer, Apple was the learning computer, and IBM was the working computer.  Theres wasnt any good place for the Amiga.  (Unless you were into video work).  Here, i think, the Amiga only made it due to the diehard C= 8-bit fans, but not enough, I suppose, to keep the company going.

[airship]

The Educational 64, certainly - a C64 in a PET-like case with a monochrome monitor. Protecto sold them out for cheap when Commodore couldn't sell any, but there never were very many.

I loved my SFD-1001, but it's long gone. Now I have no need for one since I have my 64HDD. But I still miss my 1-meg floppies.

[smf]

From what I can tell, the 16 and plus 4 computers (and peripherals) are relatively rare, and PET computers from the earlier line.  Any thoughts?

C16 wasn't exactly popular in the UK, in fact the only one I ever saw was back in the 80's. A friend found it in a skip, one of the keys was missing. A sisters boyfriend at the time had a plus 4, that was the only one I saw of that too.

I think some other PAL countries had quite a few of them because they were alot cheaper to manufacture at the time, I would guess that NTSC versions are quite rare.

I'd say that the commodore 128 was quite rare.

[Blacklord]

Finding a working Plus4 can bea  bit of a bother. I have a small handful here (some NIB) that suffer from the same problem - dead keys. I believe this is fairly common, the keyboard design (carbon pads) that C= used tend to fail. I have no idea how to repair these!

The C16's don't seem to suffer this problem.

Of the dozen or so of each of the two machines I don't have one that has the usual problem experienced by many others - dead TED, only a matter of time I suppose.

I actually like the Plus4, nice little machine & better colours (IMHO) than the C64. Shame about the lack of sprites though. There's also a lot of software for these beasties (certainly more than the C128) - most of it came out of Europe.

Lance

[Blacklord]

I should post this in the Links forum, but while we're discussing the 264's....  Plus4/ World is a pretty good source for all things Plus/4 - http://plus4.emucamp.com/

[RobertB]

Plus4/ World is a pretty good source for all things Plus/4 - http://plus4.emucamp.com/

Yup, a place I go to when I need a Plus4 fix.  :-)

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/

[Blacklord]

TPUG's article on the release of the 264's (not very flattering - but note the last paragraph, sound familiar ?):


After reading Elizabeth Deal's article about the new Plus/4 and 16 computers in the November issue, I feel compelled
to raise a few issues that she did not address. While the powerful Basic 3.5 implemented in both computers is admittedly
an improvement over the VIC 20 and C-64, I see very little else to commend them.

To begin with, the C-16 is obviously not a serious contender in the home market:
it is not expandable and has no port for a modem. As a result, it fails to `replace' the VIC, which is after all an expandable
and versatile machine. Most people who buy low-end computers take comfort in the knowledge that their computers can
grow with them. A VIC owner, when asked that dread question, "So, you got a computer? What're you gonna do with
it?" can confidently reply: "Telecommunicate. Expand the memory and word process."

Unfortunately, the marketing `experts' at Commodore failed to understand that the reason the VIC was so successful is
that once the home user has worked through the 'toy/learning tool' phase of computing, he or she is ready for more
sophisticated applications requiring a versatile machine. I suspect that there are going to be an awful lot of dusty C-16's
lying around in closets six months after Christmas.

The Plus/4, on the other hand, is touted by Commodore as a `productivity machine', implying that it is somehow
more useful than the C-64 or the Atari 800XL, the other logical choices in its price range. Since the `productivity' of
any computer must inevitably be measured by its software, the critical spotlight is eventually brought to bear on
the bundled software that comes with the Plus/4. The word processor is the most important non-recreational software used
in the home, but the one that comes with the Plus/4 is disappointing even as inexpensive word processors go. Only 37
columns per line are visible, and you can only get full (77 character) lines by horizontal scrolling. I hate horizontal
scrolling; I like to see what I'm writing, not `seek' it. Horizontal scrolling is the kind of drudgery that should have disappeared
with the invention of cars and washing machines. The Plus/4's small spreadsheet is inadequate for all but the
most rudimentary uses, such as graphing one's ice-cream consumption over a three month period. The database looks okay,
but on balance I would say that those who truly wish to use their computers as 'productivity' machines would be well advised
to get better software. Again, Commodore's mistake is in failing to understand that most people will quickly
outgrow the built-in software.

As for the Plus/4 as a programming computer, its main innovation, aside from the built-in machine language monitor
and the nice Basic, is the bank-switching method which provides about 60K of Basic workspace. That's all very well, but
the longest program I have in Basic is about 23K, and that's loooooong; it takes up ninety blocks of disk space, or ten
minutes on cassette. Those who write programs in Basic longer than that might benefit from the Plus/4, certainly; for the
rest of us there is no particular advantage.

I need hardly mention the loss of the 64's sprite graphics and excellent three voice synthesizer, replaced in the
Plus/4 and 16 alike by a paltry two voice tone generator.

I see the Plus/4 as an insult and a disappointment, as well as a major marketing error. One would hope that Commodore
will soon come to their senses and put out a `64/Plus' with such selling features as 128K of memory, 80 column display option,
a better disk drive, and most importantly, complete compatibility with C-64 software and hardware.

[Andrew Wiskow]

I see the Plus/4 as an insult and a disappointment, as well as a major marketing error. One would hope that Commodore
will soon come to their senses and put out a `64/Plus' with such selling features as 128K of memory, 80 column display option,
a better disk drive, and most importantly, complete compatibility with C-64 software and hardware.

Spooky!  :förvånad:

-Andrew

[xlar54]

The plus 4. Interesting machine, but (IMHO) terribly ugly for a "productivity" machine. Its next on my collector list, then onto the VIC-20.  Cant believe they stripped the C16 of a modem port.. thats really backwards.  Did anyone ever manage to come up with a workaround for telecom on the 16?

[Blacklord]

The plus 4. Interesting machine, but (IMHO) terribly ugly for a "productivity" machine. Its next on my collector list, then onto the VIC-20.  Cant believe they stripped the C16 of a modem port.. thats really backwards.  Did anyone ever manage to come up with a workaround for telecom on the 16?

I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Lance

[airship]

The only thing I've EVER envied about the 264 machines is the improved palette. I would have loved to have seen a VIC-III in the C128, with complete VIC-II compatibility (including sprites) PLUS Ted's expanded palette.

[StyleCHM]

Actually, the hardest Commodore "machines" for me to find (here at least) are the calculators, every single one I've got came from either the UK or the USA.

Lance

Hey, Ive got a commodore calculator even used it the other day, my brother asked for a calculator and I handed it to him and he burst out laughing

[gdanko]

While not "rare" my Vic20 is unique in that it's never been powered on and it has a very low serial number of 10479. If the serial numbers were sequential then this is a pretty early unit!

[Golan Klinger]

While not "rare" my Vic20 is unique in that it's never been powered on and it has a very low serial number of 10479.

Never been powered on?! That's a travesty because the VIC-20 is a lovely little machine. Do you have any idea how much fun you're missing out on? You should head on over to Denial VIC-20 to get in on some of that fun.

[airship]

Yep. This hobby is not one in which you place pristine, unused stuff on a shelf and brag about how 'mint' it is. You plug it in and USE it!

IMHO, of course.

[StyleCHM]

Yep. This hobby is not one in which you place pristine, unused stuff on a shelf and brag about how 'mint' it is. You plug it in and USE it!

IMHO, of course.

Agreed. Ive lost count of the number of "collectors" items Ive bought, only to crack the celophane and plug it in. I bought a bunch of NOS collecovision carts on ebay and cracked em open. I bought a NOS copy of Pitfall (cart) from a local games retailer and cracked it open that day.

This stuff is no good unless it is used