Legacy from the Plus/4

[airship]

Since no one else seems to want to post a trivia question, here's one for you:

To the C128's eternal shame, it incorporates ONE bit of legacy from the Plus/4. What is it?

(Here's a hint: to be absolutely truthful, this C128 attribute/part/thing/whatever is exactly like the Plus/4 EXCEPT for one little thing...)

[Andrew Sutton]

The power connector?

[Blacklord]

Since no one else seems to want to post a trivia question, here's one for you:

To the C128's eternal shame, it incorporates ONE bit of legacy from the Plus/4. What is it?

(Here's a hint: to be absolutely truthful, this C128 attribute/part/thing/whatever is exactly like the Plus/4 EXCEPT for one little thing...)

Hint: Bil Herd was talking about this on comp.sys.cbm recently.

Lance

[airship]

Really? I just picked it up from an old C128 book. It's interesting how this old info bubbles up independently sometimes.

[Andrew Wiskow]

Hint: Bil Herd was talking about this on comp.sys.cbm recently.

I believe this is the thread on the comp.sys.cbm newsgroup that Lance is referring to.  Bil made three posts in this thread, one of which was in reply to a question I asked him.  Very interesting information.  And yet, after reading through it all, I still don't know the answer to this trivia question...   

-Andrew

[airship]

Uh... It's not in there. The 128 is only mentioned once, and it's only as a possible source of a substitute power connector for a Plus/4 refit.

Nope, that's not it.

I'm talking internals, not externals. If that helps.

[Mark Smith]

The machine code monitor ?

[Golan Klinger]

The "love".

[airship]

Interesting. I hadn't thought about the machine code monitor. I suppose it COULD be a retread from the Plus/4. Does anyone know?

But what I'm thinking of is exactly like the Plus/4 EXCEPT for one small detail...

[smf]

But what I'm thinking of is exactly like the Plus/4 EXCEPT for one small detail...

Power connector:

128
1 5v dc
2 ground
3 9v ac
4 ground
5 9v ac

Plus 4
1 5v dc
2 9v ac
3 9v ac
4 ground

Or is that too big a detail?

[Andrew Sutton]

But what I'm thinking of is exactly like the Plus/4 EXCEPT for one small detail...

Power connector:

128
1 5v dc
2 ground
3 9v ac
4 ground
5 9v ac

Plus 4
1 5v dc
2 9v ac
3 9v ac
4 ground

Or is that too big a detail?

I thought I just said that?

[airship]

Think ROMs.

[Mark Smith]

ROMS ?

The option to have custom ROMs in a provided socket ?
The use of 28pin ROMS ?

Come on put us out of our misery! :-)

[smf]

Come on put us out of our misery! :-)

Yeah, it's gone long past the 72 hours in the rules.

[airship]

Sorry...

It's in the 80-column character ROM. The character set definition, except for the letter 'm', is taken from the Plus/4 set.

[nikoniko]

Interesting. So... what was so crappy about the Plus/4's 'm' that they went and changed it for the 128?

[airship]

I have absolutely no idea. Any  of you Plus/4 guys have an opinion on the 'm'? 

[nikoniko]

Uh... wait a second. Just noticed you wrote "It's in the 80-column character ROM. The character set definition, except for the letter 'm', is taken from the Plus/4 set."

The VDC doesn't have its own character ROM. Character definitions are copied into VDC RAM from the same set used for the VIC.

[airship]

My bad. I saw this information in the context of C128-mode use, which made me think of 80-column.

Here's the relevant item from Zimmers:

http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/firmware/computers/c128/

Commodore 64 character set and C128 mode character set. In the C128 mode set, the lower case characters b, d, f, h, i, j, k, l, m, s, t, u, w and y are different (all except the m are equal to the plus/4 character set).

Upon rereading, I'm now assuming that ONLY the characters named are from the Plus/4 as opposed to being from the original C64 character set. And they re-did the 'm' too, but for some reason didn't want to use the Plus4 version. Which still begs the question, 'Why not?'

Anyway, looks I need to take a couple of weeks off and rest. I've made a bundle of technical goofs lately.

You guys go ahead without me.

[wte]

That was a not solvable puzzle for someone who uses a european C128.
The first charset is like the C64 charset (naturally)
The second is county specific and not equivalent to Plus/4.

Does anyone hava a screenshot of the US C128 charset?
I always wonder how the second charset on a US C128 does look like.

WTE

[airship]

Sorry, I certainly wasn't thinking internationally there, was I.

[Golan Klinger]

You guys go ahead without me.

We will not leave you behind!

[nikoniko]

Okay, here we go.



Plus/4 on left, C128 on right.

[Andrew Wiskow]

Now that I see it up close like that, I can see why they didn't use the Plus/4's "m".  It's hideous.

What I don't see is what's different between the C64 and C128 "m".  Perhaps a side-by-side close-up of those two are in order? 

-Andrew

[wte]

What I don't see is what's different between the C64 and C128 "m".  Perhaps a side-by-side close-up of those two are in order? 

There is no difference! I can't see any.
Ehem, now I'm totally confused.

The solution of this puzze was: The C128 has the same charset as the Plus/4 exept "m"
But the "m" is equivalent to the C64 charset!

On my C128 all chars of the "first" charset are equivalent to the c64. And I didn't know that there are differences between the charsets of Plus/4 and C64. (Ok, I learned today: exept the "m"). I have to do some research:

Here is the first charset (VICE european C128)


and the second one


and the charset of the Plus4


and the charset of the C64

(ups! usual typo with z/y - both keys positions are interchanged on a german keyborad)

Ok. The Plus/4 has a different charset (b,c,f,i,j,k,m,s,t,u,w,y).
As you can see the second charset on a german C128 is totally different from C64 and Plus/4.

And the US C128 charset looks like the Plus/4 ones (exept the "m")? - Not really nice! (much to fat on the VDC screen)
I love the slim german/european charset!

WTE