Abandonded Commodore web sites

Blacklord · June 01, 2008, 01:17 PM

For a while I've been thinking about collecting & saving abandoned CBM 8 bit web sites & storing them all in one central location - what think we all ?

Golan Klinger · June 02, 2008, 06:16 AM

Doesn't sound like a bad idea but getting permission from the creators of abandoned sites might be tricky...

hydrophilic · June 02, 2008, 07:16 AM

If you have the space and time, then you should. Who knows when they will vanish or what little jewels are hidden in them. Golan has a good point, but if you can't contact a site's owner, I'm thinking you could publish with the ability to remove per request of owner... but I'm no lawyer.

Blacklord · June 02, 2008, 07:23 AM

Quote from: Golan Klinger on June 02, 2008, 06:16 AM
Doesn't sound like a bad idea but getting permission from the creators of abandoned sites might be tricky...

That's a point - how's does the Wayback Machine get around copyrite?

hydrophilic · June 02, 2008, 07:57 AM

As I understand it, the Way Back Machine uses two methods. First it actually checks for and honors the 'robots.txt' and second authors can submit a request to remove content. This revocation works retroactively -- thus if an author says today don't publish page foobar then the WBM will stop archiving that page AND will delete all prior copies of foobar.

Your idea immediatly brought the WBM to mind, but I assumed you've found several sites that it hasn't archived. Not to mention, having them all in a central Commodore repository would make things easier to find.

Golan Klinger · June 02, 2008, 09:06 AM

I'm not sure how the Internet Archive people get around copyright. Perhaps there is some obscure fair use condition that attaches? I'd have to do some research. What I can't figure out is which copyright law applies? The country where the original publisher lives? The country where the server on which the data was hosted? Too confusing.

Maybe this falls under the 'it is easier to apologize than ask for permission' heading. Do it and if someone complains, remove their site. If not, where's the harm?

Blacklord · June 02, 2008, 11:00 AM

Quote from: Golan Klinger on June 02, 2008, 09:06 AM
I'm not sure how the Internet Archive people get around copyright. Perhaps there is some obscure fair use condition that attaches? I'd have to do some research. What I can't figure out is which copyright law applies? The country where the original publisher lives? The country where the server on which the data was hosted? Too confusing.

Maybe this falls under the 'it is easier to apologize than ask for permission' heading. Do it and if someone complains, remove their site. If not, where's the harm?

Mmmm.... tend to agree & it's certainly worked in practice for my Sydney ferriews website.

Lance

airship · June 03, 2008, 12:52 AM

The problem with the Wayback machine is that it often doesn't archive pictures or deeper pages, where most of the interesting information often lives.

I think it's a great idea, Lance. I really miss a few of the sites that have disappeared (though names escape me right now).

Golan Klinger · June 03, 2008, 06:17 AM

Quote from: airship on June 03, 2008, 12:52 AM
I really miss a few of the sites that have disappeared (though names escape me right now).

That's the most honest and succinct summary possible for why this is a good idea.

xlar54 · September 21, 2008, 07:30 AM

Do sites actually have legal copyright to the material posted on them? This seems like a strange grey area to me.

disclaimer: this post copyright 2008 by xlar54. No portion of this post may be reproduced without the expressed written consent of me.

Blacklord · September 21, 2008, 09:35 AM

Quote from: xlar54 on September 21, 2008, 07:30 AM
Do sites actually have legal copyright to the material posted on them? This seems like a strange grey area to me.

disclaimer: this post copyright 2008 by xlar54. No portion of this post may be reproduced without the expressed written consent of me.

I just reproduced it - what you gonna do ?

xlar54 · September 21, 2008, 01:16 PM

Well... since youre down under (I know how annoying that sounds to you guys

) I guess I cant sue!

airship · September 22, 2008, 04:58 AM

Current U.S. Copyright law says that as soon as you create anything, it's copyrighted. Whether you want it to be or not. No 'notice of copyright' is necessary. If you want something to be freely used by others, you can release it to the public domain. But a better way is to mark your pages with a Creative Commons license, as I do.

xlar54 · September 24, 2008, 12:41 AM

That brings up an even more interesting question. If it's copywritten when its created, does that mean that indeed posts to websites are copywritten by the author, and as such are not reproducible? I know it seems petty, but lets say I created some code that was kick-*ss, and posted some of it here, to show people how it works. Later its discovered that IBM used that code in something they sell.

airship · September 24, 2008, 02:25 AM

Depends, xylar. Some sites have a lengthy usage agreement that (whether you've read it or not) says anything you post belongs to them. Period. Otherwise, common sense would say that it's still yours. Problem is, we're talking about the law, not common sense. And the web is still considered 'new' by the troglodytes who write law and set policy, so they're angered and confused by how copyright applies to bits. Unless you're a huge corporation with big money to contribute to campaign funds, of course.

But if IBM used your code and you wanted to fight it, well, you could. They've got thousands of lawyers on retainer, though, and you're just a peon. Good luck.

airship · October 11, 2008, 06:37 AM

On topic: Did anyone happen to archive this site: http://starbase.globalpc.net/~vanessa/hobbies/projects.html

There were some sweet hardware projects and ideas there that didn't get archived by the Wayback Machine.

Andrew Wiskow · October 11, 2008, 08:27 AM

Quote from: airship on October 11, 2008, 06:37 AMThere were some sweet hardware projects and ideas there that didn't get archived by the Wayback Machine.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of sites that the Wayback Machine doesn't catch...

I just discovered, however, that they did capture the very first website I created, back in 1996! It was the official Parker Posey homepage. Check it out: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.thebook.com/andrew/parker.htm

Golan Klinger · October 11, 2008, 09:01 AM

That site belonged to Vanessa Ezekowitz who still participates (albeit somewhat irregularly) in comp.sys.cbm. You could always contact her about the contents of that site.

VanessaE · January 22, 2009, 03:17 PM

I took the website down because I felt the content had gotten outdated. I still have the site's files, and I've been thinking about putting it back up, but I really can't think of anything to replace the old content with. I still have the files it was comprised of, so if there's something you wanted, just let me know.

RobertB · January 22, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote from: VanessaE on January 22, 2009, 03:17 PMI took the website down because I felt the content had gotten outdated. I still have the site's files, and I've been thinking about putting it back up, but I really can't think of anything to replace the old content with.

Good to hear from you! It's not always necessary to have new content... maybe just a freshening up... some newer descriptions... some thoughts on projects. And the software is classic... it ages well. No need to replace it, if you don't feel like replacing it. It's just nice to have the site there for people to see.

Sincerely,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
Catch the Fatman and Circuit Girl at
http://vimeo.com/jeri

VanessaE · January 22, 2009, 10:02 PM

I've put the website back online. You can find it at the same address as before, and the content is as it was when I took it down (except that I removed some stuff related to the GNU Public License and just made everything I've released there public domain). I'll update some of the old stuff soon. Enjoy!

saehn · January 23, 2009, 01:47 AM

Quote from: VanessaE on January 22, 2009, 10:02 PM
I've put the website back online. You can find it at the same address as before, and the content is as it was when I took it down (except that I removed some stuff related to the GUN Public License and just made everything I've released there public domain). I'll update some of the old stuff soon. Enjoy!

Hey there! Like Robert says, good to see you around here. You and I have never spoken but I've appreciated your work on hardware and software projects... especially 128 extended graphics modes. If you ever want to do a little demo or something like that, let me know. I'm always interested in doing pics for new gfx modes. :-)

airship · January 23, 2009, 03:57 AM

Great news, Vanessa! Thank you!

RobertB · January 23, 2009, 07:59 AM

Quote from: VanessaE on January 22, 2009, 10:02 PMI've put the website back online.

Thanks very much, Vanessa.
On a different note, I was reviewing some video I shot at the SWRAP Chicago Commodore Expo 2001, and there you were in the background.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Catch the Fatman and Circuit Girl at
http://vimeo.com/jeri

Abandonded Commodore web sites

hydrophilic

hydrophilic