Extreme Cartridge 2

Adoreware · January 31, 2009, 11:17 AM

Quote from: Alex on January 31, 2009, 04:06 AM
If you make it compatible with Trilogic Expert software I'd be very interested in it. Personally I think that Expert was the best C64 cart for the programmers in 80's. As all the software is available on the net with proper circurity it could be ported to work in 128 mode I suppose.

As far as I know, the expert cartridge was for the C64 only. I do have a ROM and schematic but I don't have a cart. I will attempt to include support, and don't see a problem unless the schematic I have is incorrect. The author of the schematic says he/she is not sure if it is correct. When I run the .crt file in Vice, it starts a ML monitor. I don't know if this is how it should auto start. If someone knows how it starts or has screen shots of it running, let me know.

Mangelore · February 01, 2009, 08:59 AM

There are a couple of different versions of the expert cartridge. The latest version has seperate Reset and ESM momentary switches with an ESM LED. There's also a toggle switch that can be placed in either PRG, OFF, or ON mode.

Depending on the software version used, the cartridge menu/use differs. Back in the days, this was the version I used the most.
http://dougroberts.co.uk/bizzmo/Expert4_1.D64

This cartridge operates in C64 mode only.

Cheers
Fotios

Adoreware · February 01, 2009, 11:05 PM

Quote from: Mangelore on February 01, 2009, 08:59 AM
There are a couple of different versions of the expert cartridge. The latest version has seperate Reset and ESM momentary switches with an ESM LED. There's also a toggle switch that can be placed in either PRG, OFF, or ON mode.

Depending on the software version used, the cartridge menu/use differs. Back in the days, this was the version I used the most.
http://dougroberts.co.uk/bizzmo/Expert4_1.D64

This cartridge operates in C64 mode only.

Cheers
Fotios

The schematic I have says it is for version 4. I hope the ROM images I have are version 4. If not, I will have to ask someone to email me them along with a photo of the PC board.

I enjoy answering everyone's questions here. I post general development progress on http://jledger.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2696 so keep an eye on updates there.

Alex · February 05, 2009, 04:37 AM

As for Trilogic Expert it works simply by coping memory from C64 to cartridge itsefl. There is no ROM inside - all the software available just use the internal memory. The Export does not work in C128 mode because - as far as I remember - it is using CBM80 at $8004. It is invoked by intercepting NMI line. The only difference between boards - again as far as I remember - is the ESM button to trigger the NMI line in case you disable NMI by using CIA timer to trigger NMI and never ack'ing it later. The ROM file that is floating around is some 3.x version of the software -not real ROM. You can also take a peek at VICE source code to find out more about handling different carts.

As for Turbo Assembler 128 ROM (turbo ilasm 3.0 actually) I think I have it and I can send it to you. Just drop pm me if you are still looking for it.

Adoreware · February 05, 2009, 07:59 AM

Quote from: Alex on February 05, 2009, 04:37 AM
As for Trilogic Expert it works simply by coping memory from C64 to cartridge itsefl. There is no ROM inside - all the software available just use the internal memory. The Export does not work in C128 mode because - as far as I remember - it is using CBM80 at $8004. It is invoked by intercepting NMI line. The only difference between boards - again as far as I remember - is the ESM button to trigger the NMI line in case you disable NMI by using CIA timer to trigger NMI and never ack'ing it later. The ROM file that is floating around is some 3.x version of the software -not real ROM. You can also take a peek at VICE source code to find out more about handling different carts.

As for Turbo Assembler 128 ROM (turbo ilasm 3.0 actually) I think I have it and I can send it to you. Just drop pm me if you are still looking for it.

I'm looking on Ebay for one of these carts, so if one pops up and anyone see it, let me know. If you want me to archive you a backup copy

, I will be glad to do so.

Alex · February 09, 2009, 09:15 AM

As for Expert I mostly used 2.9-10 and 3.x versions (if someone has 4.2 version I would be thankful for sharing it with me).

As some people ask for Turbo Assembler 128 ROM here it for all of you to download:
ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/Tools/Assembler/Tasm2_eprom128.zip

It works in VICE - just need to enable external ROM and be quick during startup to press TAB key. BTW: can somebody point me to document describing the internal/external ROM function in C128 and how it is being loaded?

Wish you good luck with further development of EC2.

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 09, 2009, 05:58 PM

Quote from: Alex on February 09, 2009, 09:15 AM
As some people ask for Turbo Assembler 128 ROM here it for all of you to download:
ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/Tools/Assembler/Tasm2_eprom128.zip

Thank you for that! However, it seems like the forum software adds http:// to the address so you can't link by clicking it. Instead, copy the link and paste it into your browser.

Quote from: Alex on February 09, 2009, 09:15 AMIt works in VICE - just need to enable external ROM and be quick during startup to press TAB key. BTW: can somebody point me to document describing the internal/external ROM function in C128 and how it is being loaded?

What exactly do you want to know?

Alex · February 09, 2009, 08:50 PM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 09, 2009, 05:58 PM
What exactly do you want to know?

I'd like to know what is the start address, how the code in ROM is being started and are there any other requirement for the code except for the obvious that it can not write to itself

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 09, 2009, 11:02 PM

If you don't already have the book "Mapping the C128", I suggest you download it here. It's the holy bible when it comes to finding out what all the different memory locations and routines are being used for in the C128.

That pdf contains a description of every address in the C128 memory. When it comes to function ROM's the most interesting addresses are 2752-2756 (in RAM) and 57922, 57963 and 63591 (in ROM).

Search that pdf for "function rom" and you'll have a good start

Shaun_CCC(UK) · February 11, 2009, 02:50 AM

Quote from: Adoreware on January 27, 2009, 06:44 AMLet me start by agreeing with Airship. I have purchased just about every modern cart made for the commodore, and none of them seem to do all of what I want. This is one of the reasons I'm creating the EC2. The prototype is already functional and runs about 230 game carts and a half dozen utility carts. I plan to support 128 mode, but I only have one cart (Warp Speed) and it DOES work on the 128. My primary focus in on the C64, but if I receive enough ROMs and schematic data, I will fully implement a 128 mode. The plus is that the EC2 will emulate analog cards like video capture cards and MP3 players via a daughter board. I am spending a huge amount of time on this project, and hope to get it completed soon. Please send cart requests, I am running out!!!

May I suggest the SuperCPU 128 ;-) though that's more of an upgrade than a cart.

Regards,

Shaun.

RobertB · February 11, 2009, 03:37 AM

Quote from: Shaun_CCC(UK) on February 11, 2009, 02:50 AMMay I suggest the SuperCPU 128 ;-)

Something to complement Gideon Zweijtzer's SuperCPU 64 clone, eh?

I wonder how Gideon is progressing on it,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

smf · February 11, 2009, 06:21 PM

Quote from: Alex on February 09, 2009, 09:15 AM
As for Expert I mostly used 2.9-10 and 3.x versions (if someone has 4.2 version I would be thankful for sharing it with me).

I'll second that. I only had 3.2R back in the day. The rocket fast loader was very impressive, but as it relied on a custom disk format it was less useful. Instead I did a custom version of their no block boot that could work with keyboard/joystick. I ought to dig that out and release it as I never did.

I always regretted not buying the 4.1 upgrade, because they withdrew it soon after. The only version I found since was a hacked up scene release. I'll take a look at the one that was posted, to see if it's the elusive version.

The expert had a CBM80 header, but only used it if you pressed the reset button. However that generally screwed everything up.
Hitting restore was the standard way in, which worked like everything else ( watched for the NMI line and switched the 64 to ultimax mode while the vectors were fetched ). I think the cartridge can be paged in and out in software as well, but while I always thought about writing my own code I never got that far. The ESM button is to get round the NMI being edge triggered. You can get the NMI line asserted permanently using a CIA timer, if you don't acknowledge the timer then you can't trigger it again. When you push the button it drags the line down, obviously that part is going to need some physical hardware to achieve.

Video Byte II has been reverse engineered lately

http://moogle-tech.com/blog/?p=104

Adoreware · February 11, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote from: Shaun_CCC(UK) on February 11, 2009, 02:50 AM
Quote from: Adoreware on January 27, 2009, 06:44 AMLet me start by agreeing with Airship. I have purchased just about every modern cart made for the commodore, and none of them seem to do all of what I want. This is one of the reasons I'm creating the EC2. The prototype is already functional and runs about 230 game carts and a half dozen utility carts. I plan to support 128 mode, but I only have one cart (Warp Speed) and it DOES work on the 128. My primary focus in on the C64, but if I receive enough ROMs and schematic data, I will fully implement a 128 mode. The plus is that the EC2 will emulate analog cards like video capture cards and MP3 players via a daughter board. I am spending a huge amount of time on this project, and hope to get it completed soon. Please send cart requests, I am running out!!!
May I suggest the SuperCPU 128 ;-) though that's more of an upgrade than a cart.

Regards,

Shaun.

I'm already looking into SuperCPU for both 64 and 128. The most important function is increasing the clock speed. The FPGA in the EC2 has three clocks, 50MHz being the fastest. I have tested the 6510 core using the 50MHz clock and preliminary benchmarks show twice the speed as SuperCPU64 and 1.5 times faster then SuperCPU128. However, these benchmarks are inconclusive because it was only the CPU and not the rest of the logic which adds to loss in speed. My believe is that the EC2 will be faster then both SuperCPU128 and SuperCPU64. The greatest gain will be on the 64. To match the speed exactly and maintain compatibility, I will need to use one of the EC2's built in PLL's, but I also want to see if I can go faster. If faster is possible, I will add both options. Before I can even start, I need schematics and ROMs, so if anyone hases them, send them my way. I don't play to purchase either of these due to their cost.

Adoreware · February 11, 2009, 09:55 PM

Quote from: smf on February 11, 2009, 06:21 PM
Quote from: Alex on February 09, 2009, 09:15 AM
As for Expert I mostly used 2.9-10 and 3.x versions (if someone has 4.2 version I would be thankful for sharing it with me).

I'll second that. I only had 3.2R back in the day. The rocket fast loader was very impressive, but as it relied on a custom disk format it was less useful. Instead I did a custom version of their no block boot that could work with keyboard/joystick. I ought to dig that out and release it as I never did.

I always regretted not buying the 4.1 upgrade, because they withdrew it soon after. The only version I found since was a hacked up scene release. I'll take a look at the one that was posted, to see if it's the elusive version.

The expert had a CBM80 header, but only used it if you pressed the reset button. However that generally screwed everything up.
Hitting restore was the standard way in, which worked like everything else ( watched for the NMI line and switched the 64 to ultimax mode while the vectors were fetched ). I think the cartridge can be paged in and out in software as well, but while I always thought about writing my own code I never got that far. The ESM button is to get round the NMI being edge triggered. You can get the NMI line asserted permanently using a CIA timer, if you don't acknowledge the timer then you can't trigger it again. When you push the button it drags the line down, obviously that part is going to need some physical hardware to achieve.

Video Byte II has been reverse engineered lately

http://moogle-tech.com/blog/?p=104

A lot of people are asking for Expert cart, so I will go ahead and add this. I'm watching EBay for one.

I wish the person who reversed engineered the Video Byte II would post his schematic and VICE source code. Does anyone know how to contact the author?

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 12, 2009, 12:25 AM

Super CPU both for the C64 and the C128 too? Wow, this is going to be a heavy cartridge!

Do you have any idea as to what it's going to cost?

I sent a mail to the guy who reversed engineered the Video Byte II asking for the same thing you asked for. So far he has sent me pictures of the pcb itself. I used the address he has in his blog: mooglyguy(at)gmail.com.

Adoreware · February 12, 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 12, 2009, 12:25 AM
Super CPU both for the C64 and the C128 too? Wow, this is going to be a heavy cartridge! Do you have any idea as to what it's going to cost?

I sent a mail to the guy who reversed engineered the Video Byte II asking for the same thing you asked for. So far he has sent me pictures of the pcb itself. I used the address he has in his blog: mooglyguy(at)gmail.com.

The EC2 doesn't get heavier when I add support for new devices because it is mostly done within the FPGA. The 5 prototypes cost $250 each to make, but I should be able to get that down considerable once I order a full production quantify. The FPGA chip is what is hurting this cost on this device at $65 each. Any smaller FPGA would not have the logic cells I need. The price may have went down some since the prototypes were built, but I haven't looked lately. My goal is to keep the cost below $200.

Thanks for the pic. I have one of these carts and will eventually get around to reverse engineering it. If someone else has already completed the work, then it would save me some time.

RobertB · February 12, 2009, 01:32 PM

Heh, I've had the VideoByte for years, but I've never opened it up to look inside. Thanks for the photo.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 12, 2009, 05:21 PM

Quote from: Adoreware on February 12, 2009, 01:37 AM
The EC2 doesn't get heavier when I add support for new devices because it is mostly done within the FPGA.

Well, heavy wasn't meant literally

Quote from: RobertB on February 12, 2009, 01:32 PM
Heh, I've had the VideoByte for years, but I've never opened it up to look inside. Thanks for the photo.

But of course, you have everything

RobertB · February 12, 2009, 05:49 PM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 12, 2009, 05:21 PMWell, heavy wasn't meant literally

Oh, you mean like, "Yeah, man, that was *heavy*!"

Speaking as a 1960's hippie,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 12, 2009, 06:24 PM

You tell me man, you're the one with American-English as your native language, not me

BTW, on the subject of you having everything, do you have the manual for the Video Byte II? Scanned? Oh, forgive me, I meant photocopied

RobertB · February 14, 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 12, 2009, 06:24 PM...do you have the manual for the Video Byte II? Scanned? Oh, forgive me, I meant photocopied

I can easily find the cart. Finding the manual (which is only a page or two) would be more difficult to dig out.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 15, 2009, 06:38 AM

Well, see what you can do Robert. Any efforts are appreciated

Adoreware · February 15, 2009, 08:01 AM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 15, 2009, 06:38 AM
Well, see what you can do Robert. Any efforts are appreciated

Some time back I purchased a Video Byte but the instructions did not come with it. There was a pretty nice screen shot of the Warranty card and a partial view of the front of the instruction manual. I re-created this after I got it as far as I could read from the screen shot. It's not complete, but its a start. Maybe others can complete the rest. The company that produced it used quite a bit of bad grammar and I copied it exactly to preserve it.

http://adoreware.webhosting-for-free.com/Info/Video_Byte_II.doc

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 15, 2009, 08:59 AM

Thank you!

As Robert said, the manual is really short

I have taken the liberty to pdf it.

Adoreware · February 16, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on February 15, 2009, 08:59 AM
Thank you!

As Robert said, the manual is really short

I have taken the liberty to pdf it.

I like Adobe too.

I generally provide EC2 updates on PETSCII, but I wanted to let everyone know here that the development will be delayed until about the second week in March (about a month). I am moving, and will not be able to do much work. I will watch the forums and respond to email so keep the suggestions coming.