weird problems transferring games to 5 1/4" over XE1541/XM1541

[ruthven]

I just got an XE1541/XM1541 switchable adaptor on eBay and have been using it with "Star Commander" to connect my PC to a 1541 drive to transfer .d64 images to commodore 5 1/4" disks.  I've only had partial success though--some of the games (the smaller ones it seems) transferred fine and seem to work properly on my C128.  However, I've been having various problems transferring larger games--specific examples follow:

* I've tried transferring several different image files of Turrican, but when running the disk in my C128, it always freezes after the first level draws itself out (before the player materializes on the screen).  I've tried these various image files in an emulator--some of them seem to be messed up while others seem to work perfectly--even the ones that work perfectly in emulator always freeze in the same exact place on my actual C128.

* I've tried transferring a couple of different image files of Armalyte (the ones available on C64.com and gamebase64.com respectively)--the C64.com version always froze at the trainer menu before the game even started; the gamebase64.com version is playable, but always freezes at the "game over" screen.  Both of the image files work fine in an emulator.

* I've tried transferring a couple different image files of Creatures (the ones available on C64.com and gamebase64.com respectively)--the C64.com image, once loaded clears the screen to black, then to light blue and freezes there (doesn't even make it to the title screen); the gamebase64.com image loads fully and goes into the game, but the graphics shake violently from left to right!  It looks like there is an earthquake going on in the game!  I had never seen the game before, but it was so unplayable (in an epileptic sense) that I figured this can't be right--so I checked the same image file in an emulator and the graphics were perfectly stable there...

* I've tried transferring the gamebase64.com image of Turrican 2--this game loads and is "technically" playable on my C128, but the graphics get garbled as it scrolls (particularly when you jump and the screen scrolls vertically--weird ascii characters quickly flash in parts of the screen).  Again, this same image file works fine in an emulator on PC.

I don't know if this has to do with the size of the game or not, but these random problems seem pretty consistent for games that require a full side (or more) of a disk.  Like I said, most of the smaller games I transferred seemed to work fine, but then there were a couple that came out with the garbled (ascii flashing) graphics--STUN Runner and Kromazone.  STUN Runner works alright some of the time, but occasionally quickly flashes ascii characters across the screen (particularly in tunnels when the graphics get faster and more intense).  Kromazone looks like it's working just fine--until you try to move, and then the graphics get so garbled (like they're not scrolling properly) that it is completely unplayable.  Again, for both of these games, these same images work fine in emulator and I don't notice any garbled graphics or flashing ascii characters.

Now, for troubleshooting I've tried several things: the first PC I tried this process with was a celeron (pentium 2 or 3 equivalent) 533 MHZ running Windows '98 (restarted in pure DOS mode).  The adaptor was in XM1541 mode and Star Commander was set to match this.  I tried transferring all these images in Normal, Turbo and Warp speed.  I've tried both with and without forced async.  Normally, I select the .d64 image file and select "Copy disk" from the commands menu and instruct it to copy to 8: with "full disk copy" selected.  I've also tried copying each individual file from within the .d64 image by selecting the file, hitting F5 and typing 8:--always the same results when running these disks on my C128.  I've also tried switching the transfer options from full disk copy to "BAM copy"--I don't even know what this means, but again, same exact results when running on my C128.  I then went and tried all of the above again, this time with the adaptor in XE1541 mode and Star Commander set to match--same results still.

So then I tried all these same things using an old 486 laptop running MSDOS 6.2--still same exact results.  About this time I started panicking, thinking there was something wrong with my actual C128--so I dug out my old C64, but these particular games malfunction in the same ways on my C64 as they do on my C128.  So I think it is unlikely that both my C64 and C128 happen to be malfunctioning in the same way (besides, they both run all the games that originally came with them (both original and copied disks) just fine).  I also ran diagnostic software on both my C64 and C128 testing various things like RAM access--everything passed with no errors.  I tested the read/write capability of both my 1541 drives--no errors.  I even tested the floppy disks in question with a C64 program called "Dirty Sector Killer"--no bad sectors.

Also, Star Commander didn't give me any error messages when I was transferring these images.  I find it strange that some of these games technically work but have garbled or shaky graphics--I would think that they would either work perfectly or not work at all.  Now here's the weirdest thing of all: as a test, I created my own .d64 images of these faulty transferred disks and these images work perfectly fine in an emulator!  So I am COMPLETELY PERPLEXED!  I have spent at least 4 full nights after work trying to get to the bottom of this mystery, so any insight into this matter would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!  Has anyone had anything similar happen when transferring images (games or otherwise) to disk?  Thanks and sorry for the long read.

[saehn]

Sounds like you're trying to play PAL games on your NTSC system. That's why it works on the emulator but not your C64.

http://www.high-techproductions.com/pal,ntsc.htm

To test it, try the game in NTSC mode on your emulator. In VICE, it's options-->video standard. You'll probably see the garbled screens as on your C64.

[ruthven]

Thanks--you're right!

I keep forgetting about the possibility of games being in PAL, especially when emulated.  I never thought to check which standard the emulator was using.  Actually, the thought of garbled graphics being PAL to NTSC related had crossed my mind at some point, but I dismissed this thought as some of the graphics loaded just fine, and some of the games (like Armalyte) would even play fine with no graphical errors, only freeze at some point.

I found that VICE was defaulting to PAL emulation which is why all these games ran correctly through that emulator.  I changed it to NTSC and now all the games are malfunctioning in the same way as on my C128/C64.  Even the weird errors like Armalyte freezing at the "game over" screen.  So you are exactly right!

I'm so glad to have this mystery solved--now I can continue the project of acquiring software for my C128--I didn't want to transfer any new software before because I thought I was writing corrupted disks!  Sucks that I wasted so much time on something so simple, but I guess that's part of the learning process...

Now it's just a quest to find NTSC specific ROM sites, which may be difficult as most people who are interested in retro games just use emulators nowadays--so for them NTSC/PAL doesn't matter.  If anyone knows of any good NTSC C64 image sites, please drop me a line!

[saehn]

http://ftp.pokefinder.org/
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/

Try both of those and look specifically for NTSC fixes.

[ruthven]

Thanks--I wasn't aware of either of those archive sites--they're great, especially noname.c64.org.  There is a large list of NTSC games here.  Still, I can't believe I can't find classics like Turrican or Armalyte in NTSC!

[ruthven]

Scratch that--I wasn't looking hard enough apparently--just found Armalyte in NTSC on noname.64.org!  Still looking for all the Turrican games though...

[hoss48458]

found those turicane games here along with many others, may want to check this webpage also

http://www.c64.com/

click on games then select the letter t then go down the list section, all in order

[ruthven]

Yeah, I already tried all the Turrican games from c64.com, but they must all be PAL format cause they all freeze or glitch out on my C128.  Sure, they work fine in an emulator but my whole mission is to get these on disk so I can play them on my actual machine.  This is why I'm looking for NTSC specific images.

[caren103]

By the way, I've seen this device at Ebay, and it seems very interesting:

"C64TPC (Connect Commodore 64 to PC)"

http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=220371710157

Me myself have a XA1541, but I had some hard times with it.

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

The only problem with the C64TPC is that it can't be used in C128 mode since it doesn't support burst mode, and the C128 won't work with serial devices that doesn't answer correctly (or not at all) when the C128 tries to access the serial port using burst commands.

As long as you only want to access material on your PC with your C128, I recommend the SD2IEC instead, beautiful device!

[caren103]

The only problem with the C64TPC is that it can't be used in C128 mode since it doesn't support burst mode, and the C128 won't work with serial devices that doesn't answer correctly (or not at all) when the C128 tries to access the serial port using burst commands.

As long as you only want to access material on your PC with your C128, I recommend the SD2IEC instead, beautiful device!

Thanks ! It seems a very interesting devide.