NOVICE PET USER WITH ?'s

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:23 AM

Original message by APRULES32

Hi,
I recently found a Commodore Pet 4016 with the large screen in the garbage next to a friends house. I brought it home replaced the caps lock switch with one from a busted C64 and got it running. I had a few questions about it though.

1.) Does this model have trouble using the same software as other pets? I tried programing in some of the basic software you guys have posted and most of it has syntax errors or just doesnt work right.

2.) Considering I don't have any periphrials, is it possible to set up a tape player and wire it to the pet board? seems like I would only need to get a line out from the tape player, to load software and a line in to it to save has anyone done that before? Then also using the same theory if someone sent me a wav or mp3 of a program on my pc I could record it onto a tape and then play it to the pet?

3.) Does anyone have a simple way to transfer Vice images to something the pet can use? From what it looks like most of them require IC's that I have no idea where to get (rs-232 cable) or special cables? Is there somewhere I can buy them premaid?

4.) Is it possible to take the video signal from the pet and put it to a color monitor to try and get a color signal? I have an old color monitor that supports composite or chroma and luminence, and shockingly enough its the same size screen. So im thinking install it in the pet case and have a color pet?

5.) Also my keyboard is occasionally glitchy, during programing all the sudden I lost the m Key then it came back after hitting it like 2 dozen times, and a few other keys have done that to me to. Is that common? Is there a fix?

Well I think thats enough for a first post, I do have more questions but dont want to over do it.
Thanks Guys
Anthony

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:24 AM

Original message by pet1978

First, a great resource for someone starting would be: http://www.portcommodore.com/petindex.php

1) Basic programs will probably work. The version of Basic is identical to all other 4.0 PETs, so if you get a syntax error you have typed something wrong. With this model you must watch out for the 'killer poke' (see http://www.portcommodore.com/petprog.php). The portion of the ROM that controls the screen was rewritten for this model and can cause some problems with assembly language programs. If your computer has the graphics keyboard rather than the business keyboard it will be a compatible with more software.

2) Commodore cassette players have special circuits to amplify and shape the output. A standard cassette needs an interface circuit to work. Probably best to get a real commodore tape drive off ebay. All versions of the Commodore Datasette C2N will work with a PET.

3) Transfer programs and cables are mostly for the C64. I don't know of any for the PET. (PET doesn't have RS-232)

4) The video signal can be displayed on a video monitor with a little external circuitry. But the video portion is a simple on or off signal. No grey scale. And certainly no color. If you want a color PET then get a C64. There was a model called the "Educator" which had a 64s logic board in a case like the one you have.

5) Yes it is fairly common. The keyboard gets dirty and needs to be cleaned. Step-by-step instructions are at the bottom of this page: http://www.portcommodore.com/petoper.php

Hope that gets you started,

Dave

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:25 AM

Original message by Anders Carlsson

I tried to build an interface to get composite video before. I got a ghost picture that doesn't sync on either monitor or TV I tried to use it with. Either I did something wrong, or the monitor needs to be very forgiving about sync frequencies. I even have a factory made interface called PET-TV that is supposed to output a RF signal. Not even that interface works as it should, tested on both 40 and 80 column PETs. I know there are at least three different designs on a composite video interface, perhaps one is better than the others.

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:25 AM

Original message by Robert Bernado

Quote from: Anders Carlsson on October 31, 2008, 10:00:32 am

I even have a factory made interface called PET-TV that is supposed to output a RF signal.

Ooo, I've never seen one of those in-person. :-) Perhaps one day...

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:26 AM

Original message by APRULES2

So from what it seems like there's no way to copy pet software from the net to use on my commodore 4016 and there's like nothing on E Bay. So after some searching and alot of frustration I am debating on hollowing out the case, and using an old pentium to create just a Commodore emulator machine with a real feel. I can use the catweasel to allow the connection of commodore drives, and maybe try and get a keyrah to work so i can use the commodore key board. Not to mention install a color monitor so I can play C64, 128, and vic games. The next question would be do I use a c64 key board and make it also play c64 games to. Has anyone tried it before? I saw some random ones on the net but not sure of the direction I'm going to go in.

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:26 AM

Original message by Anders Carlsson

Buy yourself a Datassette, a.k.a. C2N, a.k.a. 1530. Those are a dime a dozen. Then you use some software (AudioTAP, others?) which lets you convert software you find on Internet to WAVs, save to tape and load back.

If you get a 2031, 2040, 3040 or 4040 drive and already own a 1541 drive, you can buy a X-series cable which lets you transfer D64 images to floppy disk and read those in the IEEE-488 drive on the PET. Beware about writing to them though, it may corrupt things. Unfortunately there really aren't any good solutions for transferring disk images directly to a PET drive, as the IEEE-488 protocol is quite hairy and involves more electronics than the IEC one on the VIC/C64.

In another thread it was discussed about prlink cables and C2N232 series of devices. If you can get ahold of one of the latter (I don't know if Nicolas Welte and Marko MÃ¤kelÃ¤ did another batch), it is a very nice tool to transfer individual programs from a PC directly to e.g. a PET, either for execution or saving to tape/disk. You can even build those yourself, but it is a bit advanced project.

Of course you could gut the PET too, but you have quite a project ahead of you to implement all the stuff you list. Frankly I find the PET form factor a bit too bulky to be practical for a modern day computer. Perhaps the later SK models if you need to have the monitor bundled with the computer.

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:27 AM

Original message by APRULES2

All I can find on line is the 1541 adapter, I cant find anyone selling the c2n232, and I have no idea where to get the chips to build the board. So I was comparing ports on my C64 to my pet and I noticed they have 2 ports in common the small one which i guess is for the data cassette and the larger one. I found this adapter on EBay that uses the larger port would this work to link the pet to the comp? I was thinking link it to the comp transfer the files and then save them to the data cassette? This is a link to it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/COMMODORE-64-PC-VIC20-RS232C-PERIPHERAL-ADAPTER-JE232CM_W0QQitemZ250314673070QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250314673070&_trkparms=72%3A1234|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:27 AM

Original message by Anders Carlsson

Frankly I'm not sure if the user port is electronically identical. Most lines may be. However you need some RS232 software on the PET to receive files if you transfer data that way. See also Larry Andersson's page, where he points out that "even though the PET/CBM does have a similar parallel I-O port it lacks the proper key electronics and ROM code to use these RS-232 adapters".

http://www.portcommodore.com/interfaces.php

Your best bet is to build a PC64 or prlink cable, which connects the PC parallel port with the user port:
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/crossplatform/transfer/C2N232/cbmlink.html#cable-pc64

You can then type in a loader program on the PET and use the cbmlink software (see the same page) to transfer programs. However I have never used this exact method of transfer.

If I understand correctly, you don't own any Commodore peripherals? As I wrote before, at the very least get yourself a cheap C2N / 1530 tape recorder. It will allow you to store both the loader program and any other software you transfer.

I bought eight C2N232I units last year, of which I've sold all but one. However I believe Marko or Nicolas may have additional boards if you're eager to buy one. They cost about 25 Euros each + shipping from Europe. While not being dirt cheap, they're very versatile and fast.

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:28 AM

Original message by Robert Bernardo

Quote from: APRULES2 on November 01, 2008, 04:28:43 am

So from what it seems like there's no way to copy pet software from the net to use on my commodore 4016...

Another method. I have my C128DCR connected to the Net. I download the program or image to the C128DCR. If it is a disk image, I convert it back to a real program, using something like d64it or d128it. Then with the use of a Commodore Datasette, I save that program to a cassette. I move the Datasette over to the PET and then have the PET load the program in. Program transfer accomplished.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:28 AM

Original message by APRULES2

Unfortunately I don't have any peripherals, when I was 14 I tried emulators and liked it, so I saved up some money and bought a c64, Vic 20 (it was cheap like 5 bucks), and 1541 drive off EBay untested (it didn't work) and then I sent it to a place in Stony Point, NY who after about 3 months of phone tag subsequently lost it. At that point Commodore stuff was still expensive on EBay I remember paying like 40 bucks for the drive and 20 or 30 for the c64, so out of frustration my commodore career ended. Then I found another C64 and monitor in the trash when I was driving home one night, I picked it up played with basic for a few hours and then put it in the closet, now I found the Pet in the trash and kinda got re interested. So as of now thats all I have for CBM equipment. I probably will be buying the Datacassette soon, once I get some free cash. How do you connect a c64 to the net Id imagine finding a modem is like searching for hens teeth? As for the C2N232I I was definitely interested but when I clicked the link to try and get one he said he wasn't making any more. If you know where to get it please let me know. Also I have some Vic 20 cassettes would they work on a c64 when I get the drive?

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:29 AM

Original message by Robert Bernardo

Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 05:47:19 am

...bought a c64, Vic 20 (it was cheap like 5 bucks), and 1541 drive off EBay untested (it didn't work) and then I sent it to a place in Stony Point, NY who after about 3 months of phone tag subsequently lost it.

That's sad. :-(
Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 05:47:19 am

I probably will be buying the Datacassette soon, once I get some free cash.

Datasettes are $1 from our group, plus shipping.
Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 05:47:19 am

How do you connect a c64 to the net Id imagine finding a modem is like searching for hens teeth?

Not that hard to connect a modem to the C128 and then to a shell account at an ISP.
Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 05:47:19 am

Also I have some Vic 20 cassettes would they work on a c64 when I get the drive?

The VIC emulator on the C64 is not very good, and so, trying to run the VIC programs on the C64 would be iffy.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:29 AM

Original message by APRULES2

Will the C64 work with the modem or is it for the 128 only? Also how would I pay for that datacassette I'm definitely interested.

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:30 AM

Original message by Robert Bernardo

Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 12:17:16 pm

Will the C64 work with the modem or is it for the 128 only?

Yes, a user port modem or an external modem will work on the C64, too (the latter needing an interface).
Quote from: APRULES2 on November 04, 2008, 12:17:16 pm

Also how would I pay for that datacassette I'm definitely interested.

Check, money order, (one person sent cash), Paypal. Contact me via private mail here or at my e-mail address of rbernardo(at)iglou.com

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

Blacklord · August 02, 2009, 08:31 AM

Original message by Nils Eilers

Quote from: APRULES2 on November 01, 2008, 11:43:34 am

I cant find anyone selling the c2n232, and I have no idea where to get the chips to build the board.

Building a C2N232 is not too dificult. The AT90S2313 is no longer produced, use a ATtiny2313 as a 1:1 replacement instead - that is an Atmel AVR chip you can buy everywhere.

The original programming software for the microncontroller "cisp" is not compatible with the ATtiny2313 - simply connect a standard 10 pin ISP connector to the ATtiny2313 and use any ISP programmer you like - a simple stk200 compatible will do. If you don't own an ISP programmer, build one: you'll get an stk200 compatible with only one lpt-cable and a 74HC244 - that's all.

Use avrdude to program the chip and set the fuses to use the external xtal instead of the internal R/C oscillator