Trying to decide... for NTSC, flat or D(CR)?

[Aiken]

Okay, first off, I'm a programmer who had a VIC-20 and then a 64 as a teenager, only dreamed of a 128, and went on to do several years of professional 65816 programming.  Now I have money and time and I want to finally play with, and under the hood of, a 128.  But, before I buy one...

I've got a bunch of questions that I can't find satisfactory/certain answers to when I use Google.  Here's a quick list, and if anyone can answer even single questions, you'll be very helpful:

1) Is the 128D in the USA always a DCR?  I've read conflicting text that either says alternately that there was a regular NTSC 128D very briefly before the 128DCR, or instead that there was only the DCR.  I'm not sure which is true.

2) I've read that the at least one version of the D, and then again the DCR, included bugfixes in rom.  Is that basic, kernel, and/or on the internal drive?

3) How much of a problem is the issue people talk about with the DCR insisting certain things about the internal drive?  I'm not really sure what the issue is, something about it being the primary drive by force.  I'm wondering if I should just get a flat 128 and use a separate drive as needed.  I'm planning on using a 1541ultimate for most things anyway.  I'm not averse to a hardware mod on a D(CR), mind you, if I can get the needed results.  I'd really rather have the detached keyboard.

4) If the hassle with the internal drive is sufficient to make me avoid a D(CR), would it be possible to take a flat 128 and do the 64k VDC upgrade and possibly put in new roms that have the bugfixes above, and thus essentially have the internal benefits of the DCR without the drive problem?

I'm going to sum up the impression I've gotten from the web, so that if I'm right, you could instead just tell me I'm right: There is only the DCR and no real D in the US, the DCR has the full bugfix set, the internal drive thing is a problem that can be fixed with a (difficult?) mod, and thus I wouldn't need to get a flat and upgrade it.  If so, I just want a DCR.

Thanks.  Oh, and is anyone selling a DCR? 

[BigDumbDinosaur]

1) Is the 128D in the USA always a DCR?  I've read conflicting text that either says alternately that there was a regular NTSC 128D very briefly before the 128DCR, or instead that there was only the DCR.  I'm not sure which is true.

As far as I know, only the DCR was released for North American consumption.

2) I've read that the at least one version of the D, and then again the DCR, included bugfixes in rom.  Is that basic, kernel, and/or on the internal drive?

The DCR was shipped with the 1986 ROMs, which included all known bug fixes (but did not fix errors in the fake RS-232 kernel code).

3) How much of a problem is the issue people talk about with the DCR insisting certain things about the internal drive?

The floppy drive in the DCR is hard-wired to be device 8, which is the "default" floppy drive on any 8 bit Commodore system.  If memory correctly serves me, it can be changed.

4) If the hassle with the internal drive is sufficient to make me avoid a D(CR), would it be possible to take a flat 128 and do the 64k VDC upgrade and possibly put in new roms that have the bugfixes above, and thus essentially have the internal benefits of the DCR without the drive problem?

Yes.

[Aiken]

Thanks, that's helpful. 

I wish I could find a DCR to buy, though.  Ebay's only got three: one's a PAL version in Hungary (international ebaying != good idea), one's a major tower mod that's listed for $4500, and the third is a filthy one of questionable worth that was modified for CNC machining and has no keyboard (listed for $200!).  I almost got one locally, but that deal fell through and there's nothing else.

Guess I'll just have to be patient.

Thanks again...

[Alex]

I confirm that you can change drive number from 8 to any other from BASIC. The problem is that some of copy protected originals for c64 will not load on 1571. However the D(CR) version has the best keyboard in exchange for internally connected floppy drive.

[RobertB]

1) Is the 128D in the USA always a DCR?  I've read conflicting text that either says alternately that there was a regular NTSC 128D very briefly before the 128DCR, or instead that there was only the DCR.

Yes, the 128D in North America is always a DCR.  My European contacts have told me that there is also a DCR version for Europe in addition to the plastic 128D version.

I'm not averse to a hardware mod on a D(CR), mind you, if I can get the needed results.

On the DCR, you can install a switch to toggle in/out the built-in drive.  I have 2 DCR's with that installed.

Oh, and is anyone selling a DCR? 

Heh, for the third or fourth year in a row, at the July 25-26 CommVEx we raffled off a C128DCR. 

           Truly,
           Robert Bernardo
           Fresno Commodore User Group
           http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[Justin]

I recently acquired a really nice DCR.  Like you I dreamed of having a 128 as a kid, and I thought the D was the coolest thing ever when a buddy of mine got it.  My main reason for going for a 128D was the separate keyboard.  This is the same reason my primary 64 is an SX-64.  Having a separate keyboard that can be positioned with something that at least passes for a comfortable typing position was just worth the additional expense and desk real-estate to me.

Now that I have it, I've spent a fair amount of time messing with it, and have opened it up a couple times to tweak it.

My first project was to heat sink the chips, change the internal drive to device 9 (to use my 1541 Ultimate with programs that are hard coded for device 8 ), add a quiet fan to the power supply, and install JiffyDOS.  I will probably order the megabit rom for its rom expansion at some point.

Changing the drive device id is easy, and is pretty much the same as on the SX-64.  There are a couple small circular pads on the circuit board just below the corner of the drive internally.  By cutting across each of these circular pads, you are basically doing the same thing as cutting a jumper inside an old 1541.  Moderate pressure with a hobby knife is sufficient, and it can easily be undone by simply spreading a solder bead across the circular pad.  If you look at the attached photo, you can see the two pads including a solder blob near the center (upper trace is cut, lower trace is soldered, this makes the internal drive device 9), to the left of the C114 capacitor.

Heat sinking it was easy enough, though I went for total overkill and heat sink'd every single chip on the board.  I also got an extremely quiet fan to install in the power supply.  Once you crack the case on the DCR, you'll see that it has the same bracket as the 128D on the power supply for a fan, but there is no fan there.  On the far side of the power supply circuit board are two unused holes where 12V power can be tapped.  I found the best, quietest fan that would fit and installed it there, and it can turn over the air inside the 128DCR several times a minute.  I'll post a complete writeup with photos later tonight or tomorrow evening.

[Aiken]

Thanks, Justin, that's good info.  Sorry, I somehow missed your post or I'd have said so sooner.