GEOS 2.0, GEOSpell, the Commodore 1581, and REU

[mozartpc27]

Hello All,

So I have a couple of questions related to GEOS 2.0, which I have recently downloaded from cbmfiles.com.

First off, I've finally gotten GEOSpell, the lack of which was the principal reason I stopped using GeoWrite back in 1996 or so.  However, since I don't see the GEOS 2.0 manual available for download anywhere on cbmfiles.com, I'm still at a bit of a loss as to how to RUN GEOSpell when I have a GEOWrite document open.  Can someone enlighten me, or at least point me to a place where the GEOS 2.0 manual might be downloaded?

Secondly, long ago (around 2003 or 2004 I think), I bought a 1581 disk drive, with my ultimate intention always being to move as much of my old Commodore files on to 3.5" disks as possible.  This, however, has proven somewhat more difficult than I thought originally.  As I'm sure everyone here knows (but that I didn't know when I bought the 1581), files cannot be directly copied from a 1541 or 1571 disk drive to a 1581, either through the Commodore's native OS, or inside of GEOS.  Now, inside the native OS, the work around is simple enough: load a program into memory from the 1571, then save it to a 3.5" disk on the 1581.  A pain in the neck, and awfully time consuming, but it can be done.  However, GEOS disks are more tricky: they really can't be copied except in GEOS, and GEOS can't copy from a 1571 to a 1581 any more than the C128 can from its native operating system.  From GEOS FAQs I've read, Bo Zimmer's and others, I get the impression that IF I acquire a REU, I should be able to use it as a go-between between a 1571 and a 1581 inside of GEOS: in other words, I should be able to copy whole disks from a 1571 drive to a 1581 drive by copying them from the 1571 to the REU, then from the REU to the 1581.  Is that accurate?  If so, then I have only the "simple" matter of getting an REU at this late date in history, but it's better, I suppose, than being "stuck," as I currently am, with a 99% useless 1581.  I've yet to copy a single old file of mine on to a 3.5" disk; I am still stuck using my old cache of 5.25" disks.  I'd really like for this to stop. 

I've tried using the 1581 with OpenCBM and an XM1541 cable, by the way, and haven't had much luck: I suppose the PC I am using, which is running Windows XP 32 bit Professional SP3, is probably too far removed from the DOS-based Windows machines for which all these workarounds were designed.  It's also an IBM Thinkpad T23 laptop, which, I understand, may cause some problems, because I believe the Parallel port on this machine is soldered to the motherboard.  Suffice it to say, OpenCBM will not write to the 1581 for me, though it does recognize it is there.  This means, as yet, i've been unable to create a GEOS 2.0 3.5" boot disk.  I suppose I might try using Star Commander.  Any suggestions?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and I appreciate any and all advice that anyone on here can offer me!

[pearsoe]

You can download the GEOS 2.0 Manual here:
http://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/onrequest/geos-manuals/GEOS_Version_2.0._Manual.pdf

The geoSpell instructions start on page 187.

I'm not sure what the problem is copying files from a 1541 or 1571 to a 1581.  There are file copiers available that will work.  FCOPY from CMD is a great file copier that will copy to/from all Commodore and CMD drives.

As for within native GEOS I can't say because I've only messed around with gateWay 128 for GEOS 2.0 and you can copy files from a 1541 or 1571 to a 1581 in gateWay.

gateWay is also available for download from cbmfiles.com

[mozartpc27]

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

[RobertB]

As I'm sure everyone here knows (but that I didn't know when I bought the 1581), files cannot be directly copied from a 1541 or 1571 disk drive to a 1581, either through the Commodore's native OS...

Yes, they can.

...or inside of GEOS.

Yes, they can.

Now, inside the native OS, the work around is simple enough: load a program into memory from the 1571, then save it to a 3.5" disk on the 1581.  A pain in the neck, and awfully time consuming, but it can be done.

There are copy programs that have existed since the 1980's that can do the copying.

However, GEOS disks are more tricky: they really can't be copied except in GEOS...

You are talking about the VLIR files used in GEOS, right?  Make sure that you have the latest Configure in your GEOS so that you can use the 1581 correctly.

...and GEOS can't copy from a 1571 to a 1581...

Yes, it can.

...I should be able to copy whole disks from a 1571 drive to a 1581 drive...

Ah, are you talking about whole disk copy or file-copying?  As mentioned above, file-copying from 1541/1571 to 1581 is relatively easy.  Whole disk-copying is difficult, due to the fact that 1541/1571 disks have their directory on a different track than where the directory track is on a 1581.


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[mozartpc27]

As I'm sure everyone here knows (but that I didn't know when I bought the 1581), files cannot be directly copied from a 1541 or 1571 disk drive to a 1581, either through the Commodore's native OS...

Yes, they can.

How?  When I try it, I get messages from GEOS telling me it can't be done (I am using GEOS 2.0).  The manual also indicates it can't be done.  The manual for the 1581 reiterates that it can't be done.

There are copy programs that have existed since the 1980's that can do the copying.

What programs are those?  Do I need to install whatever it is into GEOS?  I am sorry I am not as well versed as others in this, but explanations would be helpful.

You are talking about the VLIR files used in GEOS, right?  Make sure that you have the latest Configure in your GEOS so that you can use the 1581 correctly.

Allow me to reveal the level of my technical knowledge here: Huh?  I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "VLIR files."

Ah, are you talking about whole disk copy or file-copying?  As mentioned above, file-copying from 1541/1571 to 1581 is relatively easy.  Whole disk-copying is difficult, due to the fact that 1541/1571 disks have their directory on a different track than where the directory track is on a 1581.

So, I can copy individual files directly off of a disk in a 1571 drive to a 1581 drive?  Am I understanding you correctly?  How is this done, given that GEOS 2.0 determinedly tells me it canot be done?  I don't mind having to copy files one at a time, if it can still be done.  Also, how do I accomplish the same thing inside the Commodore 128's native OS without having to load a program I've written in its entirety, then save it to the 1581?  Do explain!

[RobertB]

When I try it, I get messages from GEOS telling me it can't be done (I am using GEOS 2.0).  The manual also indicates it can't be done.

To which page are you referring?  You must remember that GEOS 2.0 also came with addendums and errata which added to the info or corrected errors in the original manual.  Did you get those addendums and errata info?

The manual for the 1581 reiterates that it can't be done.

To which page are you referring?

What programs are those?

Ordinary files (not those controlled by GEOS] can be file-copied with standalone programs, such as Maverick, Fast Hack'em, and Copy II.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "VLIR files."

GEOS uses proprietary files called VLIR, which makes them harder to copy when using standalone file copiers.  For more information, do a Google search of "VLIR files".

So, I can copy individual files directly off of a disk in a 1571 drive to a 1581 drive?

You drag and drop the icon of the file from one drive to the other.  Remember, you must have the latest Configure file in your GEOS version.  Even with the latest Configure, GEOS 2.0 was still buggy with the 1581.  This was not cured until the development of Gateway, MegaPatch 3, and Wheels OS (a GEOS replacement which can access GEOS applications).

Also, how do I accomplish the same thing inside the Commodore 128's native OS without having to load a program I've written in its entirety, then save it to the 1581?

Look here for more answers to your questions...

http://www.zimmers.net/geos/GEOSFAQ.html

Note that 1581 support had been around since GEOS 1.5.


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[Wagner]

From GEOS FAQs I've read, Bo Zimmer's and others, I get the impression that IF I acquire a REU

IF?!  I thought everyone knew that nobody would bother running GEOS without some kind of memory expansion!  (Kindly meant)

[mikeebean]

I myself used GEOS 128 2.0 for many years with a CMD FD-2000 which (I believe) had to be emulating a 1581 to work with GEOS. I also used a RamLink. I believe I also used GeoMakeBoot from CMD to create a bootable 1581 disk and Ramlink partition. The RamLink and FD-2000 came with utility disks that may have included patches to make them workable, but I honestly don't recall needing to do anything special. Again, it was years ago.

I also use GEOS 128 2.0 in Vice and copy data between various drives all the time inside GEOS without problems.

Michael