Can I get a disk or two transferred?

[commodorejohn]

A while back I tried building an X1541 cable with no success. Either I screwed it up, or my PC has one of the many, many shoddy parallel port implementations in the PC world...anyway, until I get that figured out, I was just wondering if anybody would be interested in writing a couple .d64s to physical disks for me. Specifically, I'd like the boot disk and blank template disk for the C-64 port of DOS/65, a sort of CP/M-inspired operating system for 6502-based computers.

I'd be willing to cover shipping, plus a little something for the disks and the time, so if anybody's interested, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me a line!

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

I can help you with this, no problem

Where in the world do you live?

[commodorejohn]

Northern US. But actually, I already got a PM from someone about this, so it's taken care of. Thanks anyway!

[commodorejohn]

Okay, I got the disk the other day, and it appears to be okay; however, when I try to boot DOS/65, it goes through its loading sequence and then boots me back to BASIC. I'm running it on a flat 128 with a 1541-C. I've tried disabling JiffyDOS and unplugging my REU, but nothing seems to make it work. I don't think it's a problem with the drive, as it reads just fine, but I'm kind of stumped, as DOS/65 runs just fine on an emulated 128. Does anybody have any idea what the problem might be?

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

This is really weird! It sounded so weird that I had to try it out for myself, and I get the same result!

The directory of the disc looks a bit strange, it says that the disc contains one file that is only 1 block in size, but there are 0 blocks free. When DOS/65 is loaded into an emulator (I use VICE, x128 in C64 mode) and you type "dir" a lot of files appear. Since this is a CP/M type of system it probably has it's own file system for the discs as well, in the same way that CP/M has. Thats probably why the files don't show in BASIC and it might also be the reason of this strange behaviour.

Do you know how the D64 was transferred to the disc you got? I used MMC Replay to transfer the D64. It's possible that it can't handle the custom filesystem that this disc uses. And the same problem may apply to the transfer technic used to create your disc.

[commodorejohn]

I don't know how it was transferred; I'll ask megabit. Are there transfer methods that ignore filesystem information altogether and just do a straight-up sector-by-sector copy?

[megabit]

I don't know how it was transferred; I'll ask megabit. Are there transfer methods that ignore filesystem information altogether and just do a straight-up sector-by-sector copy?

I used Star Commander to transfer the D64 file.

I don't know anything about the program or CP/M, so I can't comment on that.

Dan...

[commodorejohn]

Well, it's not CP/M per se, but it is different than the normal CBM filesystem. I know next to nothing about the various transfer software out there, though...

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

I don't know how it was transferred; I'll ask megabit. Are there transfer methods that ignore filesystem information altogether and just do a straight-up sector-by-sector copy?

With the C64 and the C128, non-CP/M disks are written in a format known as GCR. But CP/M discs are arranged in another format known as MFM. The problem is with these different formats that the tracks and sectors are stored completely different. The amount of tracks and sectors are not even the same between GCR and MFM so using a sector-by-sector copy isn't possible since the definition of a sector between these formats is not the same.

One can assume that the DOS/65 uses the MFM format (or a variant) as well so that is probably the problem. The transfer technic used (both the Star Commander and the MMC Replay) assumes that it should write a GCR-coded disc.

However, unless the DOS/65 was created with an emulator the discs have sometime in time been transferred to D64's. So it must be possible to transfer them back. But the Star Commander or the MMC Replay may not be the right tools.

Have you tried mailing the guy responsible for the website that you wrote in your first post? Maybe he has som insights on this.

[commodorejohn]

Okay, I heard from Richard Leary, and here's what he said:

DOS/65 uses the exact same recording method and format as the C64 uses for the C64 CP/M cartridge and anything else on a 1541, i.e., GCR.

How did your friend create the disk(s)? The disks on Peter Dassow's site are 1541 only (they work on a 1571 in 1541 mode). The disk must be created with a binary copy package from the .D64 image because the disk contents (other than the loader) are not visible to the usual 1541 directory.

[RobertB]

DOS/65 uses the exact same recording method and format as the C64 uses for the C64 CP/M cartridge and anything else on a 1541, i.e., GCR.

However, I've been told that C64 CP/M disks are only usable on a C64 and not on other CP/M machines.

                  Truly,
                  Robert Bernardo
                  Fresno Commodore User Group
                  http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                  CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

[commodorejohn]

Right, but that's not what we're trying to do here.

[RichLeary]

John & the group,

I registered so I can answer questions directly. A few comments that might help.

a. Download the DOS65-1C.D64 disk image from Peter Dassow's site http://www.z80.eu/dos65.html

b. Copy the entire image to a 1541 formatted disk. I use Star Commander and a 1541 interface to an actual 1541 drive. You must copy the entire disk image.

c. Ensure the C-128 is in C64 mode and the boot drive ( is in 1541 mode. Turn on JiffyDOS if you have it as it significantly speeds up disk I/O.

d. Insert the disk created in "b." into the drive ( attached to the C128.

e. Type LOAD"DOS65",8

f. After you see READY type RUN.

g. If you have JiffyDOS you should in a few seconds (not minutes) see a banner identifying the DOS/65 version and the SIM version then the A> prompt. At that point you are in DOS/65. Try typing DIR <enter>.

If that works you can start to try other things.

The distribution version assumes two drives (8 & 9) and that they are 1541s or 1571s in 1541 mode. The SIM does not include code to handle 1571s in native mode or any MFM mode nor 1581s. Adding all that is doable but not a task I am currently working.

This version of DOS/65 and SIM has been tested on VICE (C64), my C64, and my C128D.

Questions?

Rich

[RichLeary]

The ( followed by smiley faces should just have an 8 between parens. I was not aware of how the system handled that text.

Rich

[Andrew Wiskow]

The ( followed by smiley faces should just have an 8 between parens. I was not aware of how the system handled that text.

Rich

You can get around that by adding a space on either side of the "8", like this:  ( 8 )

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

I registered so I can answer questions directly. A few comments that might help.

Nice to hear from you Rich

b. Copy the entire image to a 1541 formatted disk. I use Star Commander and a 1541 interface to an actual 1541 drive. You must copy the entire disk image.

I think this is exactly what Dan (magabit) did but it still doesn't work. I used the MMC Replay to transfer the D64 to a physical disc. The MMC Replay writes every sector and every track (no matter if they are used or not) within the track/sector definition of the GCR format set up by Commodore for the 1541. When I tried that disc in the C64 mode of my C128 I got the same result as John. Is it possible that this D64 contains extra sectors in some track or even an extra track that the MMC Replay will not transfer?

BTW, the MMC Replay also has the ability to mount D64's so that they can be accessed as an ordinary disc drive but in this case, that didn't work either

This version of DOS/65 and SIM has been tested on VICE (C64), my C64, and my C128D.

I used the D64, that I downloaded, with VICE and it worked perfectly. But the same D64 will not work on my C128 (in C64 mode) once transferred to a physical disc

[RichLeary]

Wow - how simple. Thanks.

Rich

[RichLeary]

Hmmmmm. I am puzzled.

One thought and I don't have Star Commander up in front of me at the moment but if I recall when writing the disk there is an option or two that might imply doing some directory clean up or compression of something like that or just copying files. You must not do that nor validate the disk once it is created. The entire disk must be written from the .D64 image and must not be validated.

Like C64 CP/M, DOS/65 fills all the allocation bits so the disk looks like it is full but the only real 1541 DOS file is "DOS65", the loader. If you do a validate the allocation bits get messed up because 1541 DOS can not find any directory entries corresponding to all the allocation bits so it flips those bits.

DOS/65 uses all of the disk except the directory track. When in operation that track is skipped so the 1541 DOS always sees exactly what it saw when the disk was first accessed to load and run DOS65.

The disk is a normal 1541 GCR disks. There are no extra tracks or sectors. A 1541 nibble copier will copy it just fine.

Was the disk possibly not a "1541" SS disk?

Rich

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

Before I made the transfer from the D64 to the disc, I preformatted it using my 1541 connected to my C128. I did it in C128 mode but that can't be any problem since the drive is a 1541.

I'm puzzled too

BTW, even if a validation of the disc is made, it should still work, shouldn't it? The directory might look strange, but as long as you don't write anything to the disc everything should work fine, right?

[RichLeary]

Hmmmm - you may be right. A validated disk might still boot and run DOS/65 but it could also easily lead to corruption of the DOS/65 data areas.

I know that one of the cardinal rules for CP/M on a C64 or C128 is to never validate.

Rich

[megabit]

I made two more copies from the D64 files and setup my c128 with two 1541's, device 8 & 9. I put the disk with the 1 block program that says "DOS65" in drive 8 and the disk with the 1 block program that says "CPM" in drive 9.

I loaded the DOS65 program, typed "RUN" and the program loaded in. It came up at the top of the screen with:

C64 52K DOS/65 2.15 SIM 3.04
A>

At the dos prompt, I typed "DIR" and 20 files were listed.

Then at the dos prompt, I typed B: and it switched to drive 9. Typed "DIR' again and 9 files are listed.

Works for me.

Dan...

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

But the discs you made for John doesn't work. He gets the same results as I do. Strange...

[megabit]

But the discs you made for John doesn't work. He gets the same results as I do. Strange...

I don't understand it either. Unless it's the disks I used. I have been having problems with the Bonus disks I have. I'm going to toss them out. About 80% won't format on the back side. Anyway, I sent John the disks that ran on my computer.

Dan...

[RichLeary]

What Dan is reporting is exactly how it should work. Try the following..

a. If FILESTAT.INT exists on drive a then type RUN FILESTAT - be a little patient as it is not real fast. If it does not exist just type COMPILE FILESTAT first.
This will give more data on the files on either drive a or b.

b. Same for SYSSTAT
This gives some basic info on the system.

c. Try MORE followed by any text file name to get a page by page view. Just hit the <ENTER> key to see the next screen full.

Rich

[RichLeary]

I just proved again why one should never say or write anything about software unless you are using the tool when you write anything about it.

To advance pages in MORE use the <space> bar.

Rich