C-128D on the Way

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Okay...I finally decided to get a real C-128D instead of making do with WinVICE (although 80CDM and CC128 were both tested and debugged in VICE).  The "D" should be here soon.  Only thing I'm missing right now is an RGBI monitor to go with it.

Also sitting on the shelf awaiting a call to duty is a Lt. Kernal hard disk unit.  With this hardware in hand I may suddenly get the urge to step back in time 20-or-so years and do some eight bit database software engineering.  Of course, this being 2010, no one would actually have a need for anything of the sort, eh?  And, if I did do it, I'd have to multiplex a second 128 to the Lt. Kernal to test file and record locking semantics, as well as inter-port communication.  Nevertheless, I've got far more powerful development tools than what existed in 1990â€"all editing and assembly will be done on my UNIX development system.  So whatever I decide to do will take less time and hopefully be more refined. 

One of the little "infrastructure" items I have to settle is how to transfer executable binaries to the 128.  I'm looking at creating a EIA-232 link between the "D" and my UNIX box, as the latter has lots of serial ports.  On the 128 side, a little machine code will drive the serial interface and stuff the incoming bytes into RAM.  However, I historically have avoided the fake RS-232 code in the kernel like the plague.  It's a prime example of crap software.    Ergo, it appears I'll have to design and build a real serial interface.  I can assure you it won't be equipped with a 6551 UART.  The only problem will be that of getting the driver to the "D", since there initially won't be a working connection...problems, problems!

[Hydrophilic]

Sounds like you have a lot of fun in store.  As far as transferring data, you could try an X1541 cable, or a memory card device like uIEC, or do it the old-fashioned way:  print out the code and then type it in

[RobertB]

Also sitting on the shelf awaiting a call to duty is a Lt. Kernal hard disk unit.

Rear Admiral unit?

            Truly,
            Robert Bernardo
            Fresno Commodore User Group
            http://videocam.net.au/fcug
            July 24-25 Commodore Vegas Expo 2010 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

[airship]

Congrats, BDD! Welcome (back) to the world of real iron!

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Also sitting on the shelf awaiting a call to duty is a Lt. Kernal hard disk unit.

Rear Admiral unit?

            Truly,
            Robert Bernardo
            Fresno Commodore User Group
            http://videocam.net.au/fcug
            July 24-25 Commodore Vegas Expo 2010 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

Well, it does say "Xetec Lt. Kernal" on the host adapter.    But, yes, it is an RA enhanced unit.  It's going to seem really weird when I first get it going.  I haven't run any kind of CBM hardware since 1994.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Sounds like you have a lot of fun in store.  As far as transferring data, you could...do it the old-fashioned way:  print out the code and then type it in

Typing in all that machine code inside the monitor and hoping I didn't mess up is more work than I care to do.  I might have to resort initially to using the fake RS-232 routines to get the driver over to the 128.  Another possibility might be to load DEVPAK on there and use it to build the driver.  DEVPAK is a pain to use (horrible VAX-derived editor) but beats typing raw machine code into a monitor.

[dr.v]

Im really glad you're getting a 128D, BDD.  And it's especially nice that you have a Lt. Kernal HD lying about!  You have helped me personally several times with hardware and programming issues and I know I'm not alone in these forums in appreciating having you around for advice.

A couple of comments (and a question)

- the X1541 cable that hydrophilic mentioned (about $15 on ebay) is really useful.  That is, assuming you have a parallel port on your PC.  Even if you don't use that as your primary mechanism for porting data over to "genuine" commodore medium, it is certainly worth the investment.  I dump files staright to my 71 and 81.  But of course, you need plenty of blank floppies for that approach.

- In my limited experience, getting an RBGI monitor is a very temporary solution.  I landed a 1902 and it fried soon after I started using it.  I think a lot of the monitors left are nearing the end of their life cycle.  I ended up getting a 19" LCD for about $150 to use as a monitor.  I do not have any color on the 80 column - but one of my projects is to build a device similar to those found on these forums for that purpose.

- Now for my question: Can the Lt. Kernal mulitplex natively or does it require a "multiplexer" to allow sharing between two systems?  I apologize if that's an ignorant question, but I have only read about the multiplexing capabilities and have never actually used a Lt. Kernal.  I use a CMD drive which is nice, but it obviously doesn't have multiplexing capability.

Tom

[BigDumbDinosaur]

In my limited experience, getting an RBGI monitor is a very temporary solution.  I landed a 1902 and it fried soon after I started using it.  I think a lot of the monitors left are nearing the end of their life cycle.

What usually happens with these old monitors is the electrolytic capacitors dry out and then fail, sometimes by blowing up and scattering scum all over the interior of the monitor.  The C-128 is susceptible to the same failure, especially the switcher power supply used in the 128D.  Fortunately, there was nothing special about the electrolytics used in Commodore machines, so replacing them is not a big deal for someone with experience in that sort of thing.

I ended up getting a 19" LCD for about $150 to use as a monitor.  I do not have any color on the 80 column - but one of my projects is to build a device similar to those found on these forums for that purpose.

That will probably be the path I take.

Now for my question: Can the Lt. Kernal mulitplex natively or does it require a "multiplexer" to allow sharing between two systems?

A multiplexer is required to allow sharing.  The host machines can be a mixture of C-64 and C-128, as the Lt. Kernal DOS will adapt itself to the particular architecture.  The original Xetec multiplexer could support up to four machines and up to four multiplexers could be daisy-chained to support a maximal 16 machines.

To make this all work in an orderly fashion, each host adapter is set to a different port number, with port zero being the first (and only if not multiplexing).  Advanced programming techniques can be used to take advantage of this arrangement and create a true multiuser system.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Well, my plans got derailed a bit.  The person from whom I purchased the 128D did a very poor job of packaging it and then, adding insult to injury, shipped it via USPS, virtually guaranteeing it would get kicked around.  The 128D arrived all banged up and completely unusable.  The attached pic gives you a bit of an idea of what the poor thing went through.

[RobertB]

The 128D arrived all banged up and completely unusable.

Unusable electronics, mechanicals, or both?

The attached pic gives you a bit of an idea of what the poor thing went through.

Aw, crap!  Well, remove everything from the inside of the C128DCR, get a block of wood and a hammer, lay the wood on the inside of the dent, and hammer the wood against the dent.

             Editing movies right now,
             Robert Bernardo
             Fresno Commodore User Group
             http://videocam.net.au/fcug
             July 24-25 Commodore Vegas Expo 2010 - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Unusable electronics, mechanicals, or both?

It appears at this time to be mechanical.  The floppy drive was badly damaged and it doesn't seem as though a reliable repair can be made.

Aw, crap!  Well, remove everything from the inside of the C128DCR, get a block of wood and a hammer, lay the wood on the inside of the dent, and hammer the wood against the dent.

I'd do that if I had paid 25 or 50 dollars for the machine.  I didn't and I'm not repairing anything.  The seller is going to eat this one.  In any case, getting the cover off would probably require a crowbar.  The picture doesn't really show the full extent of the damage.  She packed the thing with a pair of joy sticks, with nothing between the two.  The joysticks, which I didn't want anyway, somehow survived the carnage,

[BigDumbDinosaur]

The beat-up 128D is on its way back to the seller.  Guess I'll have to wait until something else becomes available.  And, no, I don't want a flat 128. 

[saehn]

Man, that really sucks... and not just for you, it's disappointing in general that the C128D was damaged through such negligence.

I'm going to be selling eBaying mine soon (modded, tested, accessories), and I know how to pack delicate CBM electronics. :-) Will keep you in mind unless you've already acquired one.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Man, that really sucks... and not just for you, it's disappointing in general that the C128D was damaged through such negligence.

Adding insult to injury, the seller sent the thing through parcel post, virtually guaranteeing its destruction.

I'm going to be selling eBaying mine soon (modded, tested, accessories), and I know how to pack delicate CBM electronics. :-) Will keep you in mind unless you've already acquired one.

Thanks for the offer.  Actually, I'd prefer one that has not been modified, as it will be getting connected to a Lt. Kernal (aka Rear Admiral) system.

[saehn]

Ah, gotcha. Well since it's already a subject and I feel like talking about it anyway ( ): it's got a JiffyDOS switch, an adjustable fan, a switch to disable the internal 1571, and an 8/9 switch for that drive. The C128D was modified by that great CBM modder Al Anger. It's awesome, but I just can't justify keeping it anymore when I'm trying to get rid of so many things.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Ah, gotcha. Well since it's already a subject and I feel like talking about it anyway ( ): it's got a JiffyDOS switch, an adjustable fan, a switch to disable the internal 1571, and an 8/9 switch for that drive. The C128D was modified by that great CBM modder Al Anger. It's awesome, but I just can't justify keeping it anymore when I'm trying to get rid of so many things.

I'd take it if it weren't for JiffyDOS.

[Pinacolada]

The 8-bit database would be neat. I'm always interested in such things. I remember there was a rather large, complicated (for me, an ML n00b) discussion of a database written natively for the LtK, came with some documentation about the LtK on a web site. I didn't do much more than glance over it, since I no longer have an LtK.

[saehn]

I'd take it if it weren't for JiffyDOS.

Really? No worries, I'm sure it'll sell... but you know that most JiffyDOS installations come with a switch, right? This one included. Flip the switch and poof, it's gone.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

Well, I finally have a working C-128D here and can now get started on the painful(?) process of relearning the Commodore keyboard layout.  Should be interesting.

[RobertB]

...the painful(?) process of relearning the Commodore keyboard layout.

Painful?  I find it a joy to be on the C128 keyboard. 

          Truly,
          Robert Bernardo
          Fresno Commodore User Group
          http://videocam.net.au/fcug
          The Other Group of Amigoids
          http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
          Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
          http://www.sccaners.org

[BigDumbDinosaur]

...the painful(?) process of relearning the Commodore keyboard layout.

Painful?  I find it a joy to be on the C128 keyboard. 

          Truly,
          Robert Bernardo
          Fresno Commodore User Group
          http://videocam.net.au/fcug
          The Other Group of Amigoids
          http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
          Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
          http://www.sccaners.org

It's "painful" because of the non-standard layout, e.g., ; and : on different keys, " on top of 2, etc.

[RobertB]

     Heh, the C128 keyboard is standard to me, and everything else is non-standard. 

          Truly,
          Robert Bernardo
          Fresno Commodore User Group
          http://videocam.net.au/fcug
          The Other Group of Amigoids
          http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
          Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
          http://www.sccaners.org

[bacon]

I learned to type on a VIC 20 and a C64 and the C= keyboard layout is so deeply ingrained in me that I still get frustrated by $ being on Alt Gr + 4 on a Swedish PC keyboard, not on Shift + 4 as it should be.

When I run Commodore emulators I always set the keyboard to positional mapping, otherwise I can't find the right keys. I find it quite amazing - when I used a real C64 in 2002 for the first time since 1987 the layout was still second nature to me.

[BigDumbDinosaur]

I learned to type on a VIC 20 and a C64 and the C= keyboard layout is so deeply ingrained in me that I still get frustrated by $ being on Alt Gr + 4 on a Swedish PC keyboard, not on Shift + 4 as it should be.

When I run Commodore emulators I always set the keyboard to positional mapping, otherwise I can't find the right keys. I find it quite amazing - when I used a real C64 in 2002 for the first time since 1987 the layout was still second nature to me.

The problem for me is I spend much of my waking hours typing on PC style keyboards, since that's what's connected to the servers and workstations that we build here.

Although I have a software development project in mind for the C-128D and Lt. Kernal setup, all of the coding will be done on my UNIX box, which, of course, has a PC style keyboard.  So I'll not be doing nearly as much typing on the 128 as I did in the distant past.

[bacon]

The problem for me is I spend much of my waking hours typing on PC style keyboards, since that's what's connected to the servers and workstations that we build here.

Although I have a software development project in mind for the C-128D and Lt. Kernal setup, all of the coding will be done on my UNIX box, which, of course, has a PC style keyboard.  So I'll not be doing nearly as much typing on the 128 as I did in the distant past.

The thing is, my situation is the same. I write technical documentation for a living and type on a PC keyboard all day, but parts of the C= keyboard layout still feels more natural to me, probably because of all the time I spent using one from ages 12 to 17 (19 if you count my Amiga 500 days).