The C128 turns 22 next month

[Blacklord]

January 5th, 1985 was the day Commodore unveiled the C128 at the Winter CES. It functions as three computers in one: a complete Commodore 64, a CP/M mode, and a new 128 kB mode. It features a 8502 processor, Z80 processor, 128 kB RAM, and ROM cartridge port. List price was $US300.

[Brendon]

Some thoughts here :

Even though the 128 sold 2 million units in it's 4 years of production (1985 -1989) I regard it as basically an 'orphan' right from the outset. Although there was some decent software for it, Commodore's continual production of the C64 didn't help it in the slightest.

I feel that CBM should have stopped producing the 64 after the introduction of the 128D - had the 128 then kept on being made for as long as the 64 I think we would have eventually seen more native software for it & more 128-only peripherals.

Anyone else ?

[commodor]

Hello Brendon,

Some thoughts here :

Even though the 128 sold 2 million units in it's 4 years of production (1985 -1989) I regard it as basically an 'orphan' right from the outset. Although there was some decent software for it, Commodore's continual production of the C64 didn't help it in the slightest.

I feel that CBM should have stopped producing the 64 after the introduction of the 128D - had the 128 then kept on being made for as long as the 64 I think we would have eventually seen more native software for it & more 128-only peripherals.

Anyone else ?

I think that playing 'what if' nearly a quarter of a century later can lead us down some interesting tracks but ultimately is fruitless.

Commodore were basically a cheap & greedy company. They'd setup for production of the 64C, components cost next to nothing & the technology was mature enough to be mass produced very, very cost effectively. It's likely that the 64 cost significantly less that the 128 to make & that they had a much, much better profit margin.

As you say - it was already orphaned long before it was withdrawn from sale. It was also a confusing time for Commodore. 89 saw the introduction of the Amiga 500. This is when the C64 should finally have been canned as well & Commodore put all it's efforts into the 16 bit machines. The half-hearted attempted (via some very poor emulation) to lure 64 users to the Amiga was sad.  

And yet they persisted with the 8 bit range - what point the C65 when they had the 500 ? A well-priced high-performance entry level machine ? Had the C65 been produced commercially it would have likely performed even worse in the marketplace that the 128 did - remember it still had 64 compatibility at a time when the 64 was finally in decline. Likely it would have had even LESS native software than the 128 did.

Just my 2 cents worth!

~@commodor@~

[RobertB]

And yet they persisted with the 8 bit range...

Yup, the 8-bit Commodore 64's were still a moneymaker, especially at the end when the production cost of a C64 was under $5 and they could sell it at $90 retail.

Bringing back memories of C64's
at Toys 'R Us in the early 90's,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[RobertB]

January 5th, 1985 was the day Commodore unveiled the C128 at the Winter CES.

And don't forget, 2007 marks the 30th anniversary of CBM's entry into the personal computer market with its PET computer.  

A bit off-topic,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[OzOne]

Some thoughts here :

Even though the 128 sold 2 million units in it's 4 years of production (1985 -1989) I regard it as basically an 'orphan' right from the outset. Although there was some decent software for it, Commodore's continual production of the C64 didn't help it in the slightest.

I feel that CBM should have stopped producing the 64 after the introduction of the 128D - had the 128 then kept on being made for as long as the 64 I think we would have eventually seen more native software for it & more 128-only peripherals.

Anyone else ?

Agreed. The fact that so many units were sold in such a short period indicates that people wanted something better than the 64 (I know I did). C= should have halted production on the 64 & only manufactured the 128 (in the 8 bit range anyway). Especially by the time the DCR came out the hardware was mature, cheap & relatively bug free. Add to that there was so much room for internal expansion unlike it's edelerly sibling (the 64); internal hard drive ? Internal 1581? Internal ram expansion rather than maintaining compatibility with the 64 & requiring an interchangeable REU ?

Which reminds me - was the 1581 designed for the 128 ?

Oz

[commodor]

Which reminds me - was the 1581 designed for the 128 ?

Oz

You'd have to say yes, even though it works on the other 8 bit Commodores, burst mode is only available for the 128, so it's simply backwardly compatible with the 64's slow serial bus. To get full use of the 1581 you need to have it connected to a 128.

~@commodor@~

[bill.mann]

Which reminds me - was the 1581 designed for the 128 ?

Oz

You'd have to say yes, even though it works on the other 8 bit Commodores, burst mode is only available for the 128, so it's simply backwardly compatible with the 64's slow serial bus. To get full use of the 1581 you need to have it connected to a 128.

~@commodor@~

I refuse to cheapen my only 1581 by connecting it to a lowly c64!

Bill

[RobertB]

To get full use of the 1581 you need to have it connected to a 128.

Or with JiffyDOS or with Warpspeed v2.0 or with Super Snapshot v4/v5.  With those enhancements, you'd be getting significantly faster (near burst speeds) for your C64.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

P.S. Super Snapshot v5 is still available for purchase.

[RobertB]

I refuse to cheapen my only 1581 by connecting it to a lowly c64!

I refuse to not hot-rod a C64 with my 1581!  

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[commodor]

I refuse to cheapen my only 1581 by connecting it to a lowly c64!

Bill

Die-hard 128'er here, so I hear what you're saying. I haven't been near a C64 for about 15 years. Whenever I feel slightly nostalgic I type GO 64 & attempt to do something useful in BASIC 2.0 - that usually reminds me very quickly why I got the C128 in the first place!

~@commodor@~