Quote from: marquisor on December 31, 2010, 10:04 AM
As you can read it everywhere there should be a Wizardry 1 (2, 3, 5) version enhanced or at least utilizing the C128? But I can't find any (yet)?!

I'm not sure it's actually "enhanced or utilizing". Some US based publishers made their C64 games bootable on a C128: the C128 would boot a simple loader from disk, which would then switch to C64 mode and run the game. They are not C128 games at all, but a lot of people keep mentioning them as if they were. Wizardry I from Gamebase64 boots on VICE 128 (the others just crash, IIRC), but at I can't see any improvements.

Quote
I know 1982 release, the C128 wasn't released (nor planned).

This is simply the original (Apple II) release date, the Commodore versions were released a lot later. The first 5 Wizardry games are written in Pascal and were ported to new platforms simply by porting the Pascal interpreter they were running on. So when they released a later Wizardry game (3, 4 or 5) for a Computer plattform that had become popular in the meantime, they could easily make the older games available aswell. That's probably what happened to the Commodore releases.

Quote from: adminActually a Wiki based around the product list seems a good idea - maybe expanding it to a 'canonical' 128 list (include hardware as well).

Actually, if you're going to do a wiki anyway - why not establish a *generic* C128 wiki covering *all* C128  topics?

Thinking about it, the whole commodore128.org site could be turned into a wiki (plus the forum and a download area).

Btw.: I'm not sure if "yourcommodore.com" would be a proper URL for a C128 wiki

QuoteI think MediaWiki might be overkill though, can we get some suggestions for this ?

We're using MediaWiki for Aminet's wiki and I love it. It might be a bit more ressource hungry than other solutions, but from a user's point of view it rocks.

Quote from: MachineDr1st off, this isn't just about me and my BBS Software it's for the whole C= development Community.

Of course, I'm just using your case as an example.

QuoteSecondly, I WOULD NEVER do anything that even comes close to committing tax fraud or entice someone to commit tax fraud.

Ah, sorry - I was not trying to claim anything like that, I was just trying to point out that there are lots of rules and regulations to be kept in mind, and that one should really try to understand these rules before getting all too excited or even get into action. If the US tax authorities are anything like the German "Finanzamt", you'd better take great care that they don't get the impression you're trying to fool them. It#S way too easy to get into trouble.

QuoteDid you read the publication all the way through? From your post I don't think so. There is a section specifically on intellectual property/know how in that publication.

Yes, I read the whole thing, and I can't see anything that contradicts what I said.  Perhaps I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time ), in that case, feel free to point out the important part.

QuoteI can't stress enough that the determination of FMV is very subjecive and even the IRS states it in the publication.

The approach for determining fair market value is clearly described in the document you linked to. It's  "the price that property would sell for on the open market" - the only subjective part is deciding how much it would sell for. Apparently, you disagree here - could you please point  out where in the document they describe a different way of determining FMV?

QuoteSelling a program to a person is much different than selling a program to a User Group. The User group represents the masses and therefore the value does increase.

What's the source for this claim? That's exactly where we disagree.

Obviously, if your assumption would be true, your whole concept would work. But so far, I haven't seen any evidence that supports your theory. And to be honest: if it turns out you're right, the US tax laws seem to be even worse than the German ones. A loophole that lets you turn a property without any real market value into a tax write-off of several thousand dollars is a pretty impressive loophole.

QuoteWhile I like you playing the role of devil's advocate I am curious, are you an accountant (I'm not trying to bait you or shut you down if you aren't, I''m just curious)? Also, are you based in the US?

No and no.

QuoteWhile I see your points and respect your opinion, I do feel that there is a hole in the IRS guidelines that can be used as stated in my proposal.

It's enterily possible that such a loophole exists, but the only source you provided so far actually contradicts what you say (unless I'm missing something, of course).

I have configured VICE to use a native directory for drive 9 ("options->peripheral settings") and now I'd like to copy some files to that pseudo drive from within the emulation.

Can anybody recommend a file copy program that works with that kind of setup? My first try was Unicopy, but that one bails out with an error message ("00 syntax error 0 0").

Quote from: MachineDrHere is a link to determining FMV by the IRS:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p561.pdf

Let me quote from that document:

"Fair market value (FMV) is the price that property would sell for on the open market. It is the price that would be agreed on between a willing buyer and a willing seller"

Now, several people in this thread seem to share my opionion that there wouldn't be a "willing buyer" for the property you are offering - or if there would be one, he'd be willing to pay only a very small amount.

Hence my claim that your property's "fair market value" is close to zero.

Quote from: MachineDr

Quote from: Korodnythe two of you would be committing tax fraud.

I disagree.

If most people in this thread agree that the FMV of a certain piece of code is close to zero, a user group would probably come to the same conclusion. Hence, they'd have to state a really small amount of money in the letter aknowledging your donation. If they state a higher value and you use said letter to get a tax write off, the two of you would be committing tax fraud.

That's the big hole in your plan: 8bit software does not have any "fair market value", you can't just make one up by saying "this helps my cause so much, it must be worth $XY" and then use this artificial market value to enable somebody else to get tax write-offs.

QuoteI am talking about a Market Value to a Tax Exempt User Group for IT's purpose in life. Man hours could also be part of the evaluation criteria.

Neither of these are important to determine fair market value, only "the price that the property would sell for".

(I'm sorry if the following sounds harsh - it's not meant to. I'm no native english speaker, the following is the most harmless version I could come up with )

Quote from: MachineDrWhat is the fair market value to the world of Commodore Users? Is it worth $2,000 to the world? Absolutely!

No, it's not - and that's the problem.

The "market value" is what a potential buyer would be willing to pay for the rights to a certain software package. Nobody's going to pay $2000 (or $1000, or any other remarkable amount of money) for the rights to your BBS software - there are dozens of easily available BBS packages for Commodore computers, some of them in the Public Domain, some of them distributed under the GPL. Not to mention that the 'market' for C128 BBS software consists of about 5 or 10 retro-geeks. There is no demand, hence there's no real market value.

If you'd donate your software to a user group, and said user group would acknowledge this with a letter stating you donated software worth $2000, the two of you would be committing tax fraud.

I think you came up with a rather clever concept, actually - but the problem is: how do you define "market value" for 8bit software (as opposed to 8bit games, which definitely still have a market value)?

Don't get me wrong: your software is probably worth $2000, and the Abacus stuff might even be worth $100k ("worth" as in man hours invested etc.) - but the "market value" for both packages is pretty close to zero.

I was about to post my own lists, but realised they need some major work before I can put them online. For a start, I cleaned up my list of commercial games for the C128 and opened a thread in the "gaming" board. Please have a look and tell me if you have additional info.

Quite a while ago, I started assembling a list of commercial games for the C128. Inspired by the thread in the "misc software" board, I thought it's about time to post it and ask for feedback.

I'm pretty sure I missed some titles, perhaps somebody can confirm some of the "unconfirmed" entries?

QuoteCommercial games (80 columns)

A Mind Forever Voyaging (Infocom)
  - text adventure, C128 only
Beyond Zork (Infocom)
  - text adventure, C128 only
Border Zone (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
Bureaucracy (Infocom)
  - text adventure, C128 only
  - http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/27/gotw_bureaucracy.htm
Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy, The (Solid Gold) (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
Leather Goddesses of Phobos (Solid Gold) (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Head Nor Tail Of It (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 (80 column) mode
Pawn, The (Magenetic Scrolls/Rainbird)
  - text/graphics adventure
  - "The 128 version runs in native 128 mode, has better graphics, and a choice
    of 40- or 80-column display" (Commodore Magazine - July 1987, page 4)
    (http://www.if-legends.org/%7Emsmemorial/legacy/articles.htm/cm787.htm)
Planetfall (Solid Gold) (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
Schwert Ska, Das (German) (Markt&Technik)
  - text/graphics adventure
  - uses 80 column screen for text, 40 column screen for graphics
Sherlock: The Riddle of the Crown Jewels (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
  - http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/37/gotw_sherlockriddle.htm
Trinity (Infocom)
  - text adventure, C128 only
Wishbringer (Solid Gold) (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode
Zork I (Solid Gold) (Infocom)
  - text adventure, runs in both C64 and C128 mode

Unconfirmed:

unknown_submarine_game ()
  - "There was a Submarine sim advertised in Compute!'s Gazette and Run for
    80 column mode (C128 only)"
    (http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/f08fbc70194df81c?dmode=source)

Commercial games (40 columns)

Kikstart II (Mastertronic)
  - new tracks (more than C64 version), extra course features, new hazards
    and a record table for each track
  - http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/16/gotw_kikstart128.htm
Last V8 128, The (Mastertronic)
  - containing an extra level and more digitised speech than the C64 version
  - http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/9/gotw_lastv8.htm
Mygly 128 ()
  - Pac-Man clone
  - used copy for sale at: http://www.oldsoftware.com/Commodore.html
Rocky Horror Picture Show 128 (CRL)
  - more locations, better graphics and a few extra problems to overcome
  - http://www.gamebase64.com/oldsite/gameofweek/4/gotw_rockyhorrorshow.htm
Stratton 128 (CRL)
  - more screens and more graphics than C64 version (Retro Gamer, issue 15)
  - mentioned in Zzap 28, p. 107
Thai Boxing 128 (Anco)
  -
Ultima V (Origin)
  - start the C64 version in C128 mode to get ingame music

Unconfirmed:

BMX Simulator 128 ()
  - http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1500
Borrowed Time (Interplay/Activision)
  - http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/Interplay_Productions.html#Borrowed_Time
Echelon (Access Software)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/801624713ec9ec80?dmode=source
Ferrari Formula One (Electronic Arts)
  - The original of Electronic Arts 'Ferrari Formula One' works both in C128 and
    C64 mode. If you play it in C128 mode you can make it run a little bit
    faster than in C64 mode by pressing F1. This is the only difference between
    them though, If I rememeber correctly.
  - http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1500
Gato (Spectrum Holobyte)
  - announced in 64er SH 1/86, p. 123
Great War, The (Free Spirit Software)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/801624713ec9ec80?dmode=source
Mr. Quizzer (Free Spirit Software)
  - http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1008&p=1
Old Scores (Global Software)
  - graphics adventure, onscreen map on C128
  - http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/Global_Software.html#Old_Scores
Tau Ceti (CRL)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/2e1e170cf120693a?dmode=source
Three Musketeers, The (Computer Novels?)
  - http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1500
Graham Gooch's Test Cricket (Audiogenic)
  - "Test Cricket" (http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1500)
  - "Grahams Gooch´s Cricket 128" (http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1008&p=1)
Thunderchopper (ActionSoft)
  - "a chopper sim, can't remember the name"
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/47d455a6558fe0bc?dmode=source
Transylvania (Penguin Software Inc)
  - http://www.if-legends.org/~adventure/Penguin_Software_Inc.html
Up Periscope! (Actionsoft)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/47d455a6558fe0bc?dmode=source
Wheel & Deal 128 (Free Spirit Software)
  - http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1008&p=1

Budget games

Bundesliga (German) (Softwarevertrieb Scheiba)
  - mentioned in 64'er 10/1987
Cloneimals (cloneimals.com)
  - 80 column horizontally scrolling Shoot'em Up
  - distributed throught the internet/ebay.com (http://www.cloneimals.com)
Hacker 128 (German) (Softwarevertrieb Scheiba)
  - mentioned in 64'er 10/1987
Krimistunde (German) (Softwarevertrieb Scheiba)
  - mentioned in 64'er 10/1987
Maidstone Quest (SilvaSoft)
  - "This exciting 80 column animated adventure game has 28 levels to search for
    clues and weapons you need to destroy Ganef and recover the Maidstone. Made
    by Silvasoft. Requires 64k vdc 1571 or a 128D (1571 built in), 80 column rgb
    monitor"
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/bcae8eac5fb5ae98?dmode=source
  - "Maidstone Quest is a BASIC 8 game" (http://www.talkaboutcomputing.com/group/comp.sys.cbm/messages/280071.html)
Space Connection (Crown-Soft)
  - advertised in 64er 12/87, p. 15
Space Pirates 128 (Micro Designs)
  - 40 column space opera written in Basic 7.0
  - distributed through ebay.com
Starship Battles 128 (Micro Designs)
  - 40 column turn based strategy written in Basic 7.0
  - distributed through ebay.com
Vagabunden (German) (Crown-Soft)
  - ?? column graphic adventure
  - advertised in 64er 11/87, p. 91
Vegas (German) (Softwarevertrieb Scheiba)
  - mentioned in 64'er 10/1987
Wall Street (German) (Softwarevertrieb Scheiba)
  - mentioned in 64'er 10/1987

C64 games that utilise the C128

Alleykat (Hewson)
  - adds more sprites to the Katerkillar
  - more bullets on screen
  - more effects on the title screen
Baccy's Night Demo (Freeware)
  - first person shooter
  - docs: 22% speed increase
Elite 128 (FireBird, hacked)
  - hacked and improved version of the 1985 original
  - manual: 22% speed increase
Flight Simulator II (SubLogic)
  - requires a patch published by "Commodore Disk User Magazine"
  - patch allows you to switch between normal and fast mode, which
    increases the frame rate by 20% to 25%
Gunship (Microprose)
  - manual: boots in C128 mode
  - manual: speed increase
Heavy Metal Paradroid (Hewson)
  - smoother scrolling at (perhaps?) 50 hz
MOOD Preview (Freeware)
  - first person shooter
  - 22% speed increase
Morpheus (Graftgold)
  - manual: "15% more Morphai at no extra cost"
Project Stealth Fighter (MicroProse)
  - "improved graphic speed and smoothness when run on a c128" (Retro Gamer,
    issue 15)
Stealth Mission (SubLogic)
  - "improved graphic speed and smoothness when run on a c128" (Retro Gamer,
    issue 15)
Test Drive II (Accolade)
  - "uses vertical blanking to display its filled 3d graphics" (Retro Gamer,
    issue 15)
Thrust Gold (Firebird, hacked)
  - hacked version
  - unknown improvements
Uridium+ (GraftGold/Hewson)
  - "Uridium Plus looks almost totally identical when running on a C64 or a C128
    in C64 mode (it isn't a native C128 program) and, if memory serves, the only
    differences are a slight increase in the number of player bullets and a
    marginally faster top speed for the Manta. When the game first starts it
    works out what machine it's talking to and the titles page will change to
    say it's a C128 at 2MHz.")
  - 1) memory location $8d controls number of stationary background stars below
    mothership - there are 9 normally, 14 if if PAL C128. Note that stars above/
    below actual play area are free so they aren't included in that count.
    2) memory location $ee contains $0b instead of $05. $ee controls number of
    player bullets. "> ee 0f" gives you maximum firepower. Funny to see that
    game is made easier on C128
    http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21835

Unconfirmed:

Battle Chess (Electronic Arts)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/a4094e61c9f88cfa?dmode=source
Chuck Yeager (Electronic Arts)
  - speed increase
Intensity (Graftgold/Firebird)
  - ("All of Andrew Braybrook's C64 titles from Alleykat onwards support 2MHz from C64 mode")
Red Storm Rising (Microprose)
  - http://www.forum-64.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=9573
Sim City (Infogrames)
  - http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/a4094e61c9f88cfa?dmode=source
Wizardry 1,2,3,5 (Sir-Tech Software, Inc.)
  - http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1008&p=1
  - (1-3 too old for C128 support?)

Quote from: airshipI would suggest a separate CP/M header then, listing only those CP/M programs that were specifically written or bundled for the C128.

I agree.

I would split the list into several parts anyway (Software, Games, Hardware, Books - that's how I did it with my lists). If there's to much CP/M stuff, make a seperate CP/M list aswell.

Quote"I am the C128" would certainly qualify, as would "CP/M Kit".

Do you have some more info? Never heard about this one.

QuoteBesides CP/M Kit, INCA also started a series of at least 20 CP/M public domain disks that they called the "CP/M Library" for the C128. The series contained only programs certified to run under C128 CP/M Plus. At $20/disk, it was pretty pricey. Poseidon Electronics' public domain series was much more reasonable at $2/disk, and they provided C128 support, too.

That's the kind of stuff I wouldn't list at all, even if it were commercial.

Quote from: admin

Quote from: KorodnyThere's some CPM software in that list, do you really want to list CPM stuff aswell? The list would grow quite large then

Possibly - there was at least one title that was a tutorial/trainer specific to the 128.

Would that be "I am the C128" from Personal Choice (searching for info on that one)? Granted, that should be on the list then.

But I was talking about Perfect Writer/Filer/Calc, Multiplan, Wordstar etc. - all standard CPM stuff.

QuoteWhat might be of use is to compile a list of CP/M software that is known to work on the 128 (not all does).

Uh, sounds boring

While browsing another thread I came across a few C128 games that I never heard about.

Grahams Gooch´s Cricket 128
Mr. Quizzer - (Free Spirit Software)
The Great War
The Three Musketeers
Wheel & Deal 128

I'd be really interested in any further information about these titles, perhaps somebody even has a copy of some of the games?

Also, the list posted to said thread mentions "Maidstone Quest" by SilvaSoft. I know it was advertised in some (US?) magazine, but is there any proof that this really exists?

While I'm at it: I could have sworn I have a copy of "Stratton 128" by CRL, but I can't locate it anymore.  Anybody able to help?

Thanks in advance.

Hey, I'm making my own lists, seems I'm not the only one who had this idea

A couple of notes:

There's some CPM software in that list, do you really want to list CPM stuff aswell? The list would grow quite large then

Quote from: bjorn a?Book (check book)

Does anybody have more info on that one? I only know of a freeware program called CheckBook

QuoteZork the Undiscovered Underground

This is a 1997 Windows freeware release from Activision that got converted to C64/C128 format using the INFTOD64 tool - i.e. it's not an original commercial title.

Quote* denotes that later versions will run in 80 column 128 mode.

This is misleading, and some titles are accidentally marked with a "*" aswell. Also, Border Zone is missing.

Infocom "Solid Gold" releases are rereleases of older titles with a better engine underneath. Solid gold releases can be run in both C64 and C128 mode, while the original version is C64 only. ("Zork I" = C64, "Zork I (Solid Gold)" = C64 and C128).  The complete list of Infocom releases for the C128 looks like this (no footnotes required):

A Mind Forever Voyaging
Beyond Zork
Border Zone
Bureaucracy
Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy, The (Solid Gold)
Leather Goddesses of Phobos (Solid Gold)
Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Head Nor Tail Of It
Planetfall (Solid Gold)
Sherlock: The Riddle of the Crown Jewels
Trinity
Wishbringer (Solid Gold)
Zork I (Solid Gold)

QuoteParadroid Turbo

There's no Paradroid Turbo, it's called "Heavy Metal Paradroid".

QuoteQix!

AFAIK, this one just autoboots on a C128, switches to C64 mode and then runs the normal C64 game (just like a lot of other titles).

QuoteWizardry 1,2,3,5

Apart from Wizardry 5, all of these were released years before the C128 was available.

Hello guys, I'm new here. Nice forum!

Quote from: hydrophilicBacon, I agree the REU is very fast.  At 1M/s, it would take about 1/9 second to transfer 128K.  This would seem 'instant' executed in immediate mode, but would be evident (not so instant) when programs are multi-tasking...

I don't think you can implement multitasking on top of the existing DOS and using the existing set of applications.

With the C128's standard Kernel, there's no way of running an application "in the background" - if it runs, it grabs/requires all the ressources available. Imagine you're editing a text with ZED in 'task' 1, while task 2 (running in the background) would be a game of Reversi.

As soon as the Reversi game would have finished calculating the computer's move, it would listen to keyboard input again. The next time the task switcher activates Reversi's task, it would empty the keyboard buffer - i.e. eat up key strokes that were actually intended for the other task. Another problem would be that both tasks require access to the video RAM, so you'd have to switch displays aswell as tasks. Multitasking can't be that much fun if your display is switching from ZED to Reversi two or three times per second.

If you really want to have real multitasking, you'd better use a dedicated OS, like the C128 port of Lunix.

But the idea of using a REU for task switching sounds very nice, especially as C128 software should be pretty compatible with that kind of approach (no fancy raster interrupts or stuff like that).