For Sale: Dragonfire BBS 128 Software Source Code

[MachineDr]

Hi,

I am the author of Dragonfire BBS 128. Some of you might remember me or the BBS Software from many years ago.

I would like to sell the source code w/ compiler and other development tools.

Purchasing this will give you:

Dragonfire BBS Source Code
Dragonfire BBS Compiled Code
Machine Language Routines
Rings of Chaos (source and compiled)
Reference/Development Manuals
PBasic Compiler program
Assignment of all associated copyrights (as long as I am still listed as the original author)
1 Run-Time Dongle ( you WILL have to contact Dallas SemiConductor to have them recreated if you plan on selling copies of the program).


The software supports all Commodore usable modems (up to 2400 Mbs) along with most others
The software supports all Ram Drives and hard drives developed by CMD and ICT (partioned and open)
It also supports other clever devices that were made for the 128

Approximately 125 copies of this software was sold (run-time only!) and people may remember it for easy prompt driven set-up, configurable menu's (unlimited content based on drive storage) a well as being a solid and robust program. My personal BBS ran for 4 years without it ever crashing or locking up. It literally ran for 4 years unattended (midnight maintenance routine).

If you are interested please use the form mail to contact me.

The price is $2000. I believe this is a fair price for what is listed and the right to market it any way you see fit. If a group would like to buy this for the purpose of making it shareware or public domain I will consider it. It is a VERY strong program and is as tight as a drum.

If you are interested please use the form E-mail and I will get back to you.

Regards,

Jim Young
MachineDr

BTW, please look at my next post for the C-64/128 Hardware I have just about everything ever offered to connect to the 64/128 ( multiples of a lot of items).

[Andrew Wiskow]

I had never heard of this BBS software before.  And although I am financially unable to purchase the source code from you, I was wondering if you have any more info on the software.  Any screen shots?  Is the compiled software available anywhere?  It's not listed on Bo Zimmerman's Commodore BBS Program website, so you may want to contact Bo about getting your software added to the list.  :-)

-Andrew

[MachineDr]

Thank you for the info and the link. I will contact the site.

The Software received a good 3 and a half page review in Ahoy! and was mentioned in other Commodore periodicals.

MachineDr

[Andrew Wiskow]

Thank you for the info and the link. I will contact the site.

The Software received a good 3 and a half page review in Ahoy! and was mentioned in other Commodore periodicals.

MachineDr

Sounds like good software!  I'd like to see it in action...  

You don't happen to remember which issue of Ahoy! that article was in, do you?  I have a stack of Ahoy! magazines around here somewhere.  :tillfreds:

At the beginning of this year, I was able to track down Nick Smith, author of All American BBS, and I got him to send me copies of the final release of his BBS software for both the 64 and 128, as well as the source code for each version.  Earlier versions of his software were not very good, and I think he got a rather bad reputation in the BBS community.  But his final releases are really quite good (my BBS now runs the 128 version of AA BBS).  Unfortunately, these were not available anywhere.  When I mentioned to him that Greg Pfountz released the final version that he wrote of Color 64 to the Public Domain several years ago, he agreed to allow me to release his software to the Public Domain as well on his behalf.  Disk images of all the disks he sent me are now available for download on my BBS's website (see link below).

-Andrew

[MachineDr]

Andrew,

Sorry I missed a few of your original questions.

I have no screenshots.

As for the compiled version being available, I am not sure. The program fit on a floppy and could be installed by anyone. It had a hardware dongle that went into the joystick port. If I remember correctly, you could create a BBS and run it offline (kind of like a demo).

The dongle was checked when someone went online and randomly while someone was online.

Probably the best way to describe the Software is that I created my own versions of best of features of all the BBS's I ran on the 64 and came up with my own BBS. The last one I ran was Ravics and I liked the modular design of the software (i.e creating codes for new menu functions). This made it easier for the software to evolve utilizing routines already in use in the program. It's been a while but I believe that there were almost 50 menu functions that could be assigned.

This was developed right when the C-128 was released and was only coded for the C-128. Many of the user thought it was running on an IBM PC because it was pretty quick. I created sub-programs that could be loaded into memory from Disk or Ram Drive. I used it as "virtual " memory since there were less than 100 bytes free in the main module (after compilation!).

I'm not sure what issue of Ahoy! it was reviewed in but I believe that still have a box of them and will see if I can find the issue and post it for you. I believe that it was listed on the cover of the magazine so if you look through your stack you'll most likely see it.

As for releasing it to public domain, it's something that I can't do BUT if enough User Groups want to pitch in some money each I will do it for $1000 as a token gesture to keeping the C-128 alive. I have way too much time in it to just release it freely. I have 3 requirements:

I would like my name to be listed and displayed as the original author.

I would want to disseminate the information to one "point user group" and they can pass it along to the others.

Any support or explanations that are asked of me by anyone should be posted in ONE public forum hosted on one of the C-128 support sites. I will check it and reply once every two weeks (I travel a lot).

I've been out of the C-128 world for a while now and don't see myself returning to it. I still program but it's specifically for packaging automation and uses hybrid languages.

Regards,

Jim

[Blacklord]

The price is $2000. I believe this is a fair price for what is listed and the right to market it any way you see fit.

I don't mean to be negative or dump on you, but I would doubt you'd get that sort of cash for it. The buyer wouldn't get  a decent ROI as it'd be extremely difficult to sell this sort of application on any platform these days, let alone one that has not been in production for as long as the 128 has.

Add to that the additional cost you've indicated for dongles & it makes it even more prohibitive to a prospective buyer!

My own BBS software (that is about to enter limited gamma phase) is a case in point, once it's stable it'll be released to the world at large under the GPL. I doubt there'll be more than a bare handful of people left that would run a BBS package on the 128 (& most of those would be on these forums). I have extreme doubts that anyone would actually buy such a package. The days of authors making money out of BBS packages has long gone!

Perhaps you'd consider releasing the source (as other have) to the public domain ?

cheers,

Lance

[Guest]

Lance, any chance of you eschewing GPL for the new BSD license?

[Blacklord]

Lance, any chance of you eschewing GPL for the new BSD license?

I prefer the GPL - my thoughts are that the BSD license is somewhat more restrictive.

cheers,

Lance

[Golan Klinger]

I prefer the GPL - my thoughts are that the BSD license is somewhat more restrictive.

How odd. Most people would claim the opposite. Which version of the GPL will you be using?

[Guest]

BSD license more restrictive?  My goodness, I've never heard that before!

Free (as in Libre)

[Blacklord]

BSD license more restrictive?  My goodness, I've never heard that before!

Free (as in Libre)

The GPL exists because Richard Stallman, wanted to ensure the freedom of software forever. Free Software, of all its types, thrived then and thrives now; however, the GPL is one of the only licenses which guarantees that Free Software cannot become non-Free. This doesn't mean that money can't exchange hands over Free Software, only that it can't become proprietary.

When using the BSD license, your software is just as Free as when you use the GPL. However, a company can take your code, incorporate it into its own proprietary product, and (depending on the type of BSD license, with or without advertising clause) you can receive no compensation for your work, perhaps not even credit. If that's exactly what you want, then the BSD license is for you. However, it seems just a little bit dangerous for a lot of Free Software authors.

cheers,

Lance

[MachineDr]

The price is $2000. I believe this is a fair price for what is listed and the right to market it any way you see fit.

I don't mean to be negative or dump on you, but I would doubt you'd get that sort of cash for it. The buyer wouldn't get  a decent ROI as it'd be extremely difficult to sell this sort of application on any platform these days, let alone one that has not been in production for as long as the 128 has.

Add to that the additional cost you've indicated for dongles & it makes it even more prohibitive to a prospective buyer!

My own BBS software (that is about to enter limited gamma phase) is a case in point, once it's stable it'll be released to the world at large under the GPL. I doubt there'll be more than a bare handful of people left that would run a BBS package on the 128 (& most of those would be on these forums). I have extreme doubts that anyone would actually buy such a package. The days of authors making money out of BBS packages has long gone!

Perhaps you'd consider releasing the source (as other have) to the public domain ?

cheers,

Lance

Lance,

Thank you for your reply and the link! No offense taken on this topic.

I agree with you that 2000 may be a lot which is why, after Andrew suggested it, I came up with the User Group idea.

While I realize that there may be little or no market for the software at all, I have at least 2000 hours in it and do want to receive something for my work (even if a bunch of User Groups chip in and buy it for 1000, my work equates to 50 cents an hour). As I see it, people will scavenge pieces of the code for other uses. Not to pat myself on the back but there are MANY clever routines in the program that are still of value. As I mentioned earlier, this package is EXTREMELY robust.

I wrote everything, except the transfer routines, from scratch. The transfer routines were taken from the public domain (X-Modem and Punter).

I also looked at the link you provided and after reading it, I don't want to touch EITHER SIDE with a 10 foot pole. I will state this though: I do believe that programmers should be compensated for their ideas and work as well as having their work protected. There are good points to be made on both sides but there are also some very bad points.

Point in case, I used to work for the world's leading Pharmaceutical Grade Labelling Machine Manufacturer. I wrote the code for the entire machine (VERY complex). These machines sell for anywhere between 500k and 1 million US $. If our competitors got a hold of what we did it would cripple our business. When I wrote the code it put us 5-6 years ahead of our competition. Protecting yourself is necessary when you are coding something that will be used in a proprietary product.

Back in the day (when I wrote the BBS Software) we didn't have all the licensing avenues that you mention (GPL or BSD). Software was developed for 4 reasons:

Personal Use
Freeware
Shareware
Marketed Product

It has been my experience that authors subscribe to one of these uses and that is their plan from the get-go. Granted, things change and products that were once Shareware or Marketed Products do make their way to the Public Domain.

This has turned into an interesting item for thought. When I posted it, I really doubted that an individual would put out $2000 for the source but thought there was a chance that a developing company or User Group would take interest. I also realize that having the Internet available, BBS's are a dying breed (there are still some up and running).

I appreciate your comments but please keep in mind that I am just trying to liquidate something that I own (as with the development hardware I have for sale).

I think I have made a fair compromise in my reply to Andrew in regards to a bunch of User Groups chipping in for it.

As for the dongles, they cost me $ 1.75 ea. That code can easily be removed. With the Dongle removed, the source can be used as a BBS Construction Framework by anyone. A huge benefit of this is not only the BBS portion of the code but also the routines for dealing with the peripherels that were available to the C-128 (the BBS supports them all Hard Drives, Ram Drives etc.). As I mentioned, earlier, the program is rock solid. My personal BBS ran for 4 years and had well over 250,000 logins ALL without even a hiccup.

Thanks again for your time and comments. I welcome additional comments from anyone.

-Jim

[nikoniko]

I'm not familiar with the PBasic Compiler. Was this a commercial program? If so, do you know the name of the company that sold it?

There's an ongoing effort here and on the newsgroups to put together a complete list of C128 commercial software, and perhaps we'll need to add one more.

[MachineDr]

I'm not familiar with the PBasic Compiler. Was this a commercial program? If so, do you know the name of the company that sold it?

There's an ongoing effort here and on the newsgroups to put together a complete list of C128 commercial software, and perhaps we'll need to add one more.

Yes, it was a commercial program.  The pfficial name was Basic Compiler 128. I believe it was sold by Abacus Software. I don't remember (or have it handy) but I believe that there were two versions one for the 64 and one for the 128. I am TRULY surprised as you never heard of this program as Abacus was a leader in programming languages (i.e. Fortran, Forth, Cobol etc.)

At the time I used it, it was proclaimed as the fastest compiled basic availble and there was no decompiler. Hence the reason I used it for this program. It compiled so fast that I didn't have to write an Assembly Code for the Keystroke or Resonse I/O. Another good thing about it was that the runtime really optimized the code and fit a very large program into a small runtime module that left room to map out lower memory for the transfer routines and other code.

Let me see if I can find something online real quick to help you out.

Aha!

They appear to still be in business but making games for the PC. Here's the link to their web page.

www.abacuspub.com

I found it here:

http://www.allgame.com/cg/agg.dll?p=agg&sql=3:16~T20B

I posted this as it appears to provide a list (I didn't look around much) and may allow you to search by platform.

Here's a link to someone who sells Abacus Software BUT I don't see the 128 Compiler on the list. Maybe he just doesn't have one. I don't think it was readily available for the 128 I seem to remember waiting for months to get a copy. I think it was because I needed it when the 128 was a few months old and they hadn't upgraded from the 64 version by then.

http://www.oldsoftware.com/Abacus.html

I also took the time to give them a call and ask them a status of their C-64/128 products and were told that they are dead and not supported.

I mentioned the initiative going on to allow dead programs into the Public Domain and was given an E-Mail address for someone to contact. I was given this E-Mail address:

jim@abacuspub.com

I hope this helps.

Now I have a question!

I know this forum is hosted in Australia but I am looking for a definitive US answer.

If the holder of a copyright (tangible asset) donates the copyright to Public Domain can it be counted as a Tax Write-Off?

I spoke to my accountant about this and he did not have a definitive answer but thought that the answer was NO because the Public Domain is not an actual "entity".

He also thought that the answer might be YES if it were donated to a formal Users Group that was incorporated under section 501.

Are there any such Commodore User Groups?

This is getting interesting!

Also, you had asked if I knew of any other companies that you might not have but I had a friend in Oregon who wrote a very nice Assembly Language Utility. I don't know if he ever marketed it but the company had his name in it. His name was Matthew Montchalin.

Regards,

Jim

[Guest]

BSD license more restrictive?  My goodness, I've never heard that before!

Free (as in Libre)

The GPL exists because Richard Stallman, wanted to ensure the freedom of software forever. Free Software, of all its types, thrived then and thrives now; however, the GPL is one of the only licenses which guarantees that Free Software cannot become non-Free. This doesn't mean that money can't exchange hands over Free Software, only that it can't become proprietary.

When using the BSD license, your software is just as Free as when you use the GPL. However, a company can take your code, incorporate it into its own proprietary product, and (depending on the type of BSD license, with or without advertising clause) you can receive no compensation for your work, perhaps not even credit. If that's exactly what you want, then the BSD license is for you. However, it seems just a little bit dangerous for a lot of Free Software authors.

cheers,

Lance

If I write an open source program, I don't care what people do with it other than protect my copyright, which the new BSD license does.  For example, here is the license for CBM Commander:

Copyright (c) 2007, Payton Byrd
All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:

* Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.

* Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.

* Neither the name of CBM Commander Team nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT OWNER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

The first bullet requires my copyright to be maintained on the code, and the second bullet requires it on the binaries.

If someone could figure out a way to market CBM Commander and make a living off of it then that's fine with me.  I am not writing CBM Commander as a commercial endeavor.  If I were writing software for a commercial endeavor then it would not be open source, period.

The problem with GPL is that if another project simply links to GPL code, then under section 3 of the GPL v2 you must then make the source code of the consuming project open source.  This is the reason that GUI4CBM4WIN does not link against OpenCBM directly, but calls it's executables and parses its text files.  I have no desire whatsoever to extend the GPL code base out there, and so the projects I write and contribute to do NOT fall under the GPL.

[nikoniko]

I am TRULY surprised as you never heard of this program as Abacus was a leader in programming languages (i.e. Fortran, Forth, Cobol etc.)

Ah, I knew it as "Basic Compiler 128". I'm really sorry that I troubled you you unnecessarily. Thank you very much, though, for all your effort to help!

Also, you had asked if I knew of any other companies that you might not have but I had a friend in Oregon who wrote a very nice Assembly Language Utility. I don't know if he ever marketed it but the company had his name in it. His name was Matthew Montchalin.

That's a great tip. Thanks to your information, I think I've found a name for it: the Midnight Assembly System. The author of "THE SERVANT" function ROM wrote of it, "I wish to thank Matthew Montchalin for his wonderful Midnight Assembly System, the assembler used to create THE SERVANT. Without it, THE SERVANT would never have seen the light of day."

I don't believe we have an entry for it on the commercial programs list. Thank you again!

[MachineDr]

I think I've found a name for it: the Midnight Assembly System. I don't believe we have an entry for it on the commercial programs list. Thank you again!

That's it!

You are welcome. If I can be of any other help feel free to ask. I am a plethora of obscure information on the C-64/128. We had a VERY big User's Group when I worked for RCA. We took those machines apart and came up with all kinds of mods for them. We even designed a heat sink for the 1541 and had our model shop crank them out for us (Mil Spec even!).

My bad on the name of the compiler!!!!! I used the term we called it around here. PBasic was much easier to say that C-128 Basic Compiler and everyone I dealt with referred to it the same way.

BTW, I found an E-Mail for Matthew and dropped him a note for an update.

-Jim

[MachineDr]

Perhaps you'd consider releasing the source (as other have) to the public domain ?

cheers,

Lance

I'm trying to work something out in regards to possibly doing this. There might be some catches though.

Basically, I'm trying to sell everything Commodore that I have (which is quite a lot!). I know that you are in Australia so I doubt that this will be possible to do from here to there. Do you know of any official US based User's Group for the C-64/128? I think I have a way to make this work for everyone.

When I retrieve my items, I will catalog everything and come up with a plan that will benefit everyone. In the mean time, If you or anyone else knows of a US based User's Group that files 501 (Tax Exempt) please let me know.

Also, anyone in the US who would be interested in buying a VERY large lot of Hardware and Software AND willing to travel to New Jersey to pick it up please let me know. Please note that this needs to be a one shot deal. I don't want to piece meal any of it and I really don't want to post it on E-Bay. It's fine if it's a coalition of buyers, I just want to make the sale and they can divvy it up amongst themselves.

Regards.

-Jim

[Guest]

Jim,

I'm definitely up for buying your collection, but it needs to come at a big-lot bargain price as it will be expensive to haul it back home.  I'm in CT frequently and it's just a couple of hours for me to drive to NJ.  I could rent a truck and drive the lot home in TN from NJ instead of flying home from CT.

[airship]

Was the Midnight Assembly System available for the C128? I seem to recall it was only for the C64. Of course, you could still use it to create C128 applications.
Here's a link to a Transactor page that has a 1/2 page ad for it. Incidentally, he was operating as 'Mountain Wizardry Software' at the time.
http://cbm.csbruce.com/~csbruce/cbm/transactor/v8/i3/p059.html

Wish I had the bucks to make an offer on your collection.

[MachineDr]

Jim,

I'm definitely up for buying your collection, but it needs to come at a big-lot bargain price as it will be expensive to haul it back home.  I'm in CT frequently and it's just a couple of hours for me to drive to NJ.  I could rent a truck and drive the lot home in TN from NJ instead of flying home from CT.

Payton,

That sounds good. The sale of the hardware is key to what I do with BBS Software. I must make arrangements to do whatever I do with the software before I don't have the hardware. When I do relinguish the software I plan on spending a few hours to provide some development notes. There are no comments in the code as they took up valuable memory when developing (please note that this does NOT mean the code is spaghetti!!!! It's actually VERY organized as well as optimized prior to compilation).

I'm curious, are you anywhere near Parsons, TN. I have a Brother who lives there and I could always take a trip down. I have an SUV and can most likely get everything in there. It might be a little tight.

A list will be forthcoming, I will retrieve my items in the middle of October.

Do you know of any Commodore User Groups that have standing as a Tax Exempt Organization? Would you consider forming one? I believe a LLC Charter costs $50 per year. This will make releasing my software to the Public Domain (providing I do get credit as the original author).

Regards,

-Jim

[nikoniko]

Was the Midnight Assembly System available for the C128? I seem to recall it was only for the C64. Of course, you could still use it to create C128 applications.

Just found this at http://www.baconman.nu/cbm/c128/c128_applications/mas-128.txt

MIDNIGHT ASSEMBLY SYSTEM
Matthew Montchalin (mmontcha@OregonVOS.net).

Executes from either Bank 0 or Bank 1 and generates code into the Bank that is opposite
the one that it resides in.

Supports the Commdore 1750 REU with its own built-in RAMDOS, complete with commands
for automatically transferring entrire batches of files to and from the 1750 REU.

How to Load MAS into Bank 1:
BLOAD"MAS-128 W*",B1

Then execute it by typing:
BANK 1 : SYS 5888

To restore the screen editor, press CTRL + RESTORE simultaneously.
To remove offending tab settings, press CTRL + L at the appropriate place.
To establish new tab settings, press CTRL + K at the appropriate pave.

For a Cold RESET, press ESC + RESTORE.

So, sounds like the answer to your question is, yes, it was available for the 128.

Here's a link to a Transactor page that has a 1/2 page ad for it. Incidentally, he was operating as 'Mountain Wizardry Software' at the time.
http://cbm.csbruce.com/~csbruce/cbm/transactor/v8/i3/p059.html

Nice. When we have original ads, it would be nice to link them from the programs list/database. I wonder if a later issue of Transactor might have an ad for the 128 version...

[Golan Klinger]

If the holder of a copyright (tangible asset) donates the copyright to Public Domain can it be counted as a Tax Write-Off?

No. Your accountant was correct. You have to donate your asset to an organization that is able to issue a tax receipt. The trick is determining the value of your asset. If they IRS doesn't accept your valuation, you've got a problem.

[MachineDr]

Was the Midnight Assembly System available for the C128? I seem to recall it was only for the C64. Of course, you could still use it to create C128 applications.
Here's a link to a Transactor page that has a 1/2 page ad for it. Incidentally, he was operating as 'Mountain Wizardry Software' at the time.
http://cbm.csbruce.com/~csbruce/cbm/transactor/v8/i3/p059.html

You are correct, that was the name of the company he started. However, I am almost positve that it was for the C-128 only (one of the reasons Matthew looked me up). I believe the ad was a folly though. If I remember correctly, Matthew paid for the ad to see what kind of interest he would expect to get for his Assembly Package.

I was very good "friends" with Matthew a long time ago and helped him test some of the features and provide feedback BUT I do not recall that a final version was ever released.

Here's a piece of trivia for you about that package. Matthew called it the Midnight Assembly System because it was developed in the wee hours of the morning. Matthew was the night attendant at his Family's Motel in Oregon and killed the dead time by developing MAS.

I looked him up and have dropped him an E-Mail to see how he is and the status of MAS. It appears that he stopped posting on Commodore Boards a 4 or 5 years ago.

If you get a chance, read ANYTHING he has posted. He is a VERY sharp guy and has a unique approach at not only problem solving but innovations (i.e. 2) C-64's/1 Hard Drive (pseudo networking on a C-64). I wish I was posting back then because I have a thing or two to say on that topic.

I had a falling out with Matthew many years ago due to the Upjohn Company. I was taking Halcyon to help me sleep sleep and did things in the middle of the night that I had no recollection of. One of them was being very mean to him in chat one night. This was before the Halcyon warning came out and I had no clue until Upjohn issued a press release to the effect that "this type of activity might occur".

I hope he doesn't hold a grudge and gets back to me.

Wish I had the bucks to make an offer on your collection.

Don't fret, I have a feeling that when I make the list available it will be a coalition of buyers that buys it. Maybe you could work something out with them for the items you want/need.

Regards,

-Jim

[MachineDr]

If the holder of a copyright (tangible asset) donates the copyright to Public Domain can it be counted as a Tax Write-Off?

No. Your accountant was correct. You have to donate your asset to an organization that is able to issue tax receipt. The trick is determining the value of your asset. If they IRS doesn't accept your valuation, you've got a problem.

Thank you for your reply. For what I am looking to take as a Tax Write-Off I don't think there will be any problem.

I think the biggest problem will be finding a Commodore User's Group that is registered and Tax Exempt.

He is doing some research on what we can do (in regards to the IRS claim) as I type.

Regards,

Jim