128 Function ROM

megabit · February 13, 2009, 06:24 AM

I have a new piece of hardware for the 128 Internal ROM Socket. It uses the high capacity EPROMs (27010 1meg, 27020 2meg, 27040 4meg and 27080 8meg).

It comes in a 16k version ($8000 to $BFFF) for a maximum no. of 64 pages or 32k version ($8000 to $FFFF) for a maximum no. of 32 pages.

I need to know if there's an interest for this adapter before I invest anymore time and money on it.

I have a 16k version that has a 4meg EPROM full of programs that I use on my C128 and 128DCR.
Here is a list of the programs:

Merlin 128 v1.0 Promos 2.0
My Disk Editor Function keys
Viza Write 128 Viza Star 128
Seq Reader 128 Begin & End Adrs
Fastrac File copy Directory Editor
Color 80 column Basic Data Maker
Monitor 64 Basic Merge
Basic Merge + Maverick File Copy
Maverick Track Editor Single 41 Data copy
Dual 41 Data Copy Single Nybbler
Dual Nybbler Single 81 Data copy
Maverick File Tracer Maverick Track & Sector Editor
64K VDC RAM Test REU Test

I have a 32k version that has a 1meg EPROM with Key Dos, Servant and Basic 8 installed.

I have sent the adapters to airship hoping he would write a review on it. I would happy to answer any questions you might have, but I would like to wait until airship has written his review.

Dan...

Blacklord · February 13, 2009, 09:07 AM

I'm interested.

megabit · February 13, 2009, 09:31 AM

By the way I forgot to mention, it won't cost an arm and a leg either.

For the Adapter with an EPROM is $20.00 USD, without an EPROM is $15.00 USD.

Dan...

Blacklord · February 13, 2009, 09:55 AM

Plus postage to Oz ?

megabit · February 13, 2009, 10:26 AM

Shipping/handling separate and I'll mail it anywhere USPS can send it.

Dan...

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 13, 2009, 05:30 PM

I'm interested too

Do you have a picture of the pcb so we can see what it looks like?

You presented an impressive list of C128 function ROM's. Are they all commercial (in origin) or are some of them "homemade".

megabit · February 13, 2009, 09:16 PM

QuoteDo you have a picture of the pcb so we can see what it looks like?

I don't know how to up load a picture to the forum. If airship writes a review on the adapter, maybe he will post a picture with it.

QuoteAre they all commercial (in origin) or are some of them "homemade".

In the 16k version, the following are home made, I wrote them back in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

My Disk Editor Function keys
Seq Reader 128 Begin & End Adrs
Color 80 column Basic Data Maker
Basic Merge Basic Merge +

Key Dos, Servant and Basic 8 in the 32k version, I down loaded from Andrew's webpage.

Airship thought some of you would rather have a 32k version.

Another nice thing, there is no soldering involved to install it.

Dan...

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 13, 2009, 11:01 PM

Thank you very much for the pictures that you mailed me. I've taken the liberty to upload them here.

I think airship is right in assuming we'd rather want the 32K version. And very nice that no soldering is involved. Soldering on a 20-25 year old motherboard is not recommended

How do you decide which 16K or 32K ROM should be active? Via software?

What is the wire used for that's connected to another chip?

megabit · February 14, 2009, 01:29 AM

QuoteHow do you decide which 16K or 32K ROM should be active? Via software?

The 16k and 32k are two separate adapters.

QuoteWhat is the wire used for that's connected to another chip?

The quiky clip connects to an unused I/O that shows up at $D700, it's used to flip pages.

Dan...

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 14, 2009, 02:14 AM

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:29 AM

QuoteHow do you decide which 16K or 32K ROM should be active? Via software?

The 16k and 32k are two separate adapters.

What I actually meant was how you choose the active page in the 16K and 32K adapters respectively. But I got the answer to that in the next question

QuoteWhat is the wire used for that's connected to another chip?

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:29 AM
The quiky clip connects to an unused I/O that shows up at $D700, it's used to flip pages.

That is neat BTW

Many thanks also for the picture of the adapter installed in the C128D (below).

RobertB · February 14, 2009, 03:20 AM

Quote from: megabit on February 13, 2009, 06:24 AM
Merlin 128 v1.0 Promos 2.0
My Disk Editor Function keys
Viza Write 128 Viza Star 128
Seq Reader 128 Begin & End Adrs
Fastrac File copy Directory Editor
Color 80 column Basic Data Maker
Monitor 64 Basic Merge
Basic Merge + Maverick File Copy
Maverick Track Editor Single 41 Data copy
Dual 41 Data Copy Single Nybbler
Dual Nybbler Single 81 Data copy
Maverick File Tracer Maverick Track & Sector Editor
64K VDC RAM Test REU Test

How did you get past the copy protection in Vizawrite 128 and Vizastar 128? When you use Maverick (and all of its sections), doesn't it jump to C64 mode?

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info -- http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

airship · February 14, 2009, 04:22 AM

Sorry I haven't gotten a review up here. I've been under the weather, just barely able to browse and post a bit.

I'll get to it as soon as I can. Physically, it's a nice bit of work, easy to install and quite useful. More when I can.

megabit · February 14, 2009, 07:42 AM

QuoteSorry I haven't gotten a review up here. I've been under the weather, just barely able to browse and post a bit.

Get well soon. Miss your satire.

QuoteHow did you get past the copy protection in Vizawrite 128 and Vizastar 128?

It was easy, but time consuming.

QuoteWhen you use Maverick (and all of its sections), doesn't it jump to C64 mode?

All the maverick programs run in C64 mode.

RobertB · February 14, 2009, 08:02 AM

QuoteHow did you get past the copy protection in Vizawrite 128 and Vizastar 128?

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 07:42 AMIt was easy, but time consuming.

Back in the 1980's Info 64 magazine had a review of Vizastar 128 (and by deduction, Vizawrite 128, too) and mentioned that it carried extra memory in its required cartridge in order to run the program. One of my German friends told me that the cart was no more than a giant dongle which prevented the program from running without it. What exactly was in that cart? Why was it "time-consuming", as you said?

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

megabit · February 14, 2009, 01:18 PM

QuoteWhat exactly was in that cart? Why was it "time-consuming", as you said?

Robert, you really are curious about how I managed to remove the copy protection.

There is no copy protection on the disk and your friends from Germany are correct about the cartridge, but it's ROM only, you can't write to it. I converted both programs for internal ROM sometime in 1990. I even gave a demonstration at CUGKC back then. They had quite a few members at that time.

Anyway, let me see if I can remember what I did. The loader would only load small portions of the program at a time. At the end of each small portion were, I think, 3 bytes of data that the loader would use to load the next small portion. This is where the time consuming part enters the picture. I had to load each small portion one at a time to get the information for the next and so on until the whole program was loaded. There were quite a few small portions. I remember keeping notes as I went, so I could back track if I had to.

The cartridges have code in them, but I never tried to go through any of it to see if the program used it for anything other than a dongle.

The cartridges are still there only in internal ROM instead of cartridge ROM. The program is loaded in RAM and then before the program is started, a page is flipped to put the ROM portion for the program at $8000 in internal ROM.

I had to go through the program code to find where it accessed the cartridge ROM and change it to access internal ROM instead.

Now you know.

Dan...

RobertB · February 14, 2009, 04:22 PM

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:18 PM...about the cartridge, but it's ROM only, you can't write to it.

Right.

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:18 PMI even gave a demonstration at CUGKC back then.

I will be visiting the CUGKC sometime this summer.

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:18 PMThe loader would only load small portions of the program at a time. At the end of each small portion were, I think, 3 bytes of data that the loader would use to load the next small portion. This is where the time consuming part enters the picture. I had to load each small portion one at a time to get the information for the next and so on until the whole program was loaded. There were quite a few small portions.

Very tricky!

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 01:18 PMThe cartridges are still there only in internal ROM instead of cartridge ROM. The program is loaded in RAM and then before the program is started, a page is flipped to put the ROM portion for the program at $8000 in internal ROM.

I had to go through the program code to find where it accessed the cartridge ROM and change it to access internal ROM instead.

Thanks for the look at how you did it.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

megabit · February 14, 2009, 09:35 PM

QuoteI will be visiting the CUGKC sometime this summer.

Let me know what month when you find out, so I can be there.

Dan...

got128 · February 16, 2009, 10:02 AM

I would be interested in either the 1 or 2 Meg version (32k). Do you have any documentation for it?

got128

megabit · February 16, 2009, 02:43 PM

QuoteI would be interested in either the 1 or 2 Meg version (32k). Do you have any documentation for it?

got128

I plan to put a something together after airship does his review. I'm sure he'll find something I'll have to fix.

I plan to put a manual together with instructions, how it works, Merlin source code, parts list, layout and schematic. Some may want to make their own adapter.

I will try to cover all the information you'll need to program your own EPROM. Lord willing, I'll be around to answer any questions you might have. Except when I'm on the lake fishing.

Dan...

RobertB · February 16, 2009, 03:56 PM

Quote from: megabit on February 14, 2009, 09:35 PMLet me know what month when you find out, so I can be there.

Oh, thanks. It's a busy summer for me. For travel to the CUGKC, I have the following slots: July 7-12, July 28-Aug. 5, and August 10-???

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

airship · February 17, 2009, 06:38 AM

Feel free to cut and paste the following review to other forums.
---------------------------------------------------------------

THE MEGABIT 128 INTERNAL ROM ADAPTER
For the C128/C128D Internal ROM Socket
Developed by D. C. Newbury

Review by Mark R. Brown

THE BASICS

The Megabit 128 internal ROM Adapter is a small circuit board that plugs into the internal expansion ROM socket on the Commodore 128 or C128D. Its purpose is to allow you to use high-capacity EPROMS: 27010 (1 meg.), 27020 (2 meg.), 27040 (4 meg.), or 27080 (8 meg.).

It's very easy to install. Since the board is longer than a standard EPROM, you have to bend down a couple of small disk caps on the 128 motherboard before you snap it into the internal ROM socket. There's also a pigtail with a clip that has to be attached to a pin on the U3 chip. Piece of cake. No soldering. Easily removed if you need to.

Newbury currently sells two different versions of the adapter board. One addresses up to 16K at a time; the other addresses up to 32K at once. Each is the same price: $15 PPD in the US. Each uses the same EPROMs; which you choose comes down to how big a memory space you need to have active at any one time. The 32K version lets you include bigger apps, like KeyDos, the Servant, and BASIC 8.

THE BARGAIN

An even better deal than just buying the bare board is to add five bucks and order either board with an EPROM preprogrammed with some apps and a nice menu program. This not only gives you a set of useful apps right out the gate, it means non-technical types can actually do something with this board.

Because if you want to do something of your own, you're on your own. While the developer is a very helpful guy, there's no easy way right now to get your own apps up and running on this board. Here's what he wrote back when I asked how to program my own EPROM apps for this board:

"I will have to put something together, like a separate manual that will have the commented ML listings for the auto start routine, menu and program loaders. It may take awhile."

Then he mentioned something about fishing.

Just remember that full support for developing your own menus and apps is planned. It's coming. Sometime. Also remember you're only paying $20 (shipping included) for the preprogrammed edition of either version of this little marvel. If it were $50 or more, I'd linger here awhile, complaining. But for twenty bucks I think that's more than fair.

Okay. Fine. So we're stuck for the time being with the programs and menu system he's burnt for us. So let's talk about that.

Because what's already included is a load and a half.

THE BYTES

When I turn on my C128 in 40-column mode and press F1, nothing happens. At least, nothing happens on my C128. It might be interference with JiffyDOS, since I get the JiffyDOS '@$' command with F1. I don't know, but I'm not going to pull my JiffyDOS chip to find out. Maybe it's just an 80-column app. The manual doesn't make that clear. So let's try 80-column mode.

Press F1 and... okay, THERE we go! A nice menu of apps. What's available? Some of the best, most-used C128 and C64 utilities. Here's a list:

16K version w/4meg EPROM:
Merlin 128 v1.0
Promos 2.0
My Disk Editor
Function keys
Viza Write 128
Viza Star 128
Seq Reader 128
Begin & End Adrs
Fastrac File copy
Directory Editor
Color 80 column
Basic Data Maker
Monitor 64
Basic Merge
Basic Merge +
Maverick File Copy
Maverick Track Editor
Single 41 Data copy
Dual 41 Data Copy
Single Nybbler
Dual Nybbler
Single 81 Data copy
Maverick File Tracer
Maverick Track & Sector Editor
64K VDC RAM Test
REU Test

32k version w/1meg EPROM:
Key Dos
Servant
BASIC 8
My Disk Editor
Seq Reader 128
Color 80 Col
BASIC Merge
Function Keys
Begin & End Adrs
BASIC Data Maker
BASIC Merge +

The 16k version is a melange of C128 and C64 apps, some commercial and some written by Newbury. All are very useful. I can't imagine there's much you'd want to do that isn't covered in here somewhere. But, just to be contrary, I do miss not having a disk cataloger and a simple text editor like ZED.

When you pick a program it comes up in a flash, of course. C64 programs kick into C64 mode and run flawlessly.

The programs have not been modified in any way that I can tell, other than to make them work from the internal ROM. That means when you're done using one of these programs, you have to power cycle your machine to quit. (Newbury's own programs do politely drop you back into BASIC when you exit them.)

No problem, as long as you didn't expect this thing to work like Partner 128, letting you jump back and forth from applications to utilities like Bond from babes to bomb blasts. You can't have everything, dude.

You DID remember to save your program before you hit F1, didn't you?

THE BITS

What other goodies do you get? For twenty bucks? Are you kidding?

Newbury sent me a review package that was complete with a printed manual and a CD-ROM containing the documentation for all of the programs on the EPROM. I doubt you'll get all that for a couple of sawbucks. But I assume he'll be making it all available on the web for free.

Installation instructions are complete and more than adequate to the (very simple) task. The manual includes documentation for all of the utility programs Newbury developed himself. The CD-ROM has PDF manuals and d64 files for all of the commercial apps included.

As stated above, there is, as yet, no documentation on how to create your own EPROMs. But did I mention that it's coming?

THE BOTTOM LINE

Best twenty bucks you ever spent. Ever. Pawn your grandpa's watch and buy this right now. Really. I mean it.

Though I desperately want to create a menu and load it up with my own apps, for twenty bucks what Newbury provides is an excellent selection.

The board couldn't be easier to install. If you can install an internal ROM, you can install this board.

This is a fine product and it solves a basic problem. At least it did for me.

I've already decided to keep the 32K version installed permanently. I had burnt EPROMs for KeyDos, the Servant, and BASIC 8, and have been struggling for a year over which of them to keep in that socket. Now I don't have to choose. Best of all, all three apps are 128-mode programs; I hate having to switch to C64 mode to do anything. Now I don't have to.

SmallCleverDinosaur · February 17, 2009, 07:34 AM

Wow

You couldn't have had better reviews than that, could you? So, Dan, how do I order this marvel? What is the postage for Sweden, Europe?

megabit · February 17, 2009, 04:02 PM

Wow Mark, I'm speechless. Thank you very much for the nice review!

Now I had better get to work on the 'Do it yourself' manual.

The 32k version adapter that I sent to airship was a modified 16k version. I had to lay out a new board and have ordered half a dozen to play with. They should be here by Friday.

Question, should I put the commercial programs from the 16k version in the 32k version before I send them out?

I did not mention to airship that the printed manual is not included in the package; it was just for his convenience. It costs too much (ink, paper, cover and postage). But, if you want to pay extra for a printed manual, we could work something out. The adapter will come with a CD that has the manual in pdf format and all the other goodies.

QuoteWhen I turn on my C128 in 40-column mode and press F1, nothing happens. At least, nothing happens on my C128. It might be interference with JiffyDOS, since I get the JiffyDOS '@$' command with F1. I don't know, but I'm not going to pull my JiffyDOS chip to find out. Maybe it's just an 80-column app. The manual doesn't make that clear. So let's try 80-column mode.

I did find a bug in the adapters after I sent them to airship. It's a hardware problem, not in the software. Sometimes when you power up, the internal ROM will not be on page 0. The F1 function key will not get reprogrammed and you can't get access to the menu. You have to power down and up to make it work. The new 32k board will correct the problem.

QuoteWow You couldn't have had better reviews than that, could you? So, Dan, how do I order this marvel? What is the postage for Sweden, Europe?

To come up with shipping cost, I will need to know your address. I don't need a name until you're ready to order an adapter. If you PM me your address I will find out. I don't mind going to the Post Office, there's this nice to look at......

QuoteBut I assume he'll be making it all available on the web for free.

You can send a copy of the CD to anyone you want, maybe Andrew or Lance will post it.

Airship, I noticed in your review that you didn't mention the other two programs in the ROM; the up arrow and left arrow keys.

Dan...

RobertB · February 18, 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote from: megabit on February 17, 2009, 04:02 PM
Question, should I put the commercial programs from the 16k version in the 32k version before I send them out?

In addition to those already listed in the 32K version? If so, then yes!

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info -- http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX

RobertB · February 18, 2009, 08:23 AM

Quote from: airship on February 17, 2009, 06:38 AMIts purpose is to allow you to use high-capacity EPROMS: 27010 (1 meg.), 27020 (2 meg.), 27040 (4 meg.), or 27080 (8 meg.).

[snip]

Newbury currently sells two different versions of the adapter board. One addresses up to 16K at a time; the other addresses up to 32K at once. Each is the same price: $15 PPD in the US. Each uses the same EPROMs...

What is the pricing for the other high-capacity EPROMs - 27020, 27040, 27080?

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX