Graphics Booster 128

[Wagner]

It has been known for a long time that the C128 with 64K VDC RAM is capable of higher resolutions than 640X200.  Check out this article from the Commodore Knowledge Base...

http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/display.cgi?255

The person(s) who made the Graphics Booster aren't claiming resolutions any higher than what other people have known about and documented.

You should go to the c128.net website http://www.c128.net/download/gb128.htm, download the d81 software, and run it on your C128D.  Seeing is believing.

[RobertB]

It has been known for a long time that the C128 with 64K VDC RAM is capable of higher resolutions than 640X200.

Yes, I know.  Basic 8 proves that fact.

The person(s) who made the Graphics Booster aren't claiming resolutions any higher than what other people have known about and documented.

However, according to this thread, they are claiming more colors.

...download the d81 software, and run it on your C128D.  Seeing is believing.

Yup, I will do that.  Getting back to a previous question which was left unanswered... Without the specialized GB board and its EPROM, are you able to create pics in its extended resolution/colors?
           
                 Truly,
                 Robert Bernardo
                 Fresno Commodore User Group
                 http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                 The Other Group of Amigoids
                 http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
                 Southern California Commodore & Amiga

[Alex]

Any results? I don't have time unfortunalty to transfer those disks to my c128 but I'll do it during weekend I hope.

[Wagner]

     However, according to this thread, they are claiming more colors.

I must have missed that.  What are they claiming exactly?  All I did was run the downloads on my computer.  Since the programs appeared similar to what was in this forum thread (the pictures included on the disk images at least) I didn't analyze it any further.  After having run the Graphics Booster software, I came to the conclusion that their daughterboard holds 64K or RAM, although it would be more informative for you to test their software yourself and form your own opinion, rather than rely on anything I say.

Getting back to your question, are you able to create pics in its extended resolution/colors? what resolutions and colors am I supposedly trying to duplicate?  Claiming more colors is one thing, having more colors is something else.   Can you show me something in Graphics Booster that can't be displayed with 64K VDC RAM?

[RobertB]

I must have missed that.  What are they claiming exactly?

Earlier in this thread, Hydrophilic wrote:

But according to the manual, "The colorblocks 8x6 pixel can be set independent from each other. 256 foreground and 256 backgroundcolors. If this matrix is filled with PATTERN1,0,0,0 you can display 65000 colors in this matrix."

If you can get 256 colors without dithering (65000+ with dithering), then it must use some special hardware... Unless they use double dithering:  interlace for one layer, then patterns for a second layer...

You wrote:

Claiming more colors is one thing, having more colors is something else.

See the above from Hydrophilic.

Can you show me something in Graphics Booster that can't be displayed with 64K VDC RAM?

That is one of the points of this thread... to determine the capabilities of Graphics Booster, i.e., to know what Graphics Booster is all about, since it seems that none of us have the specialized board that came with it.

               Truly,
               Robert Bernardo
               Fresno Commodore User Group
               http://videocam.net.au/fcug
               The Other Group of Amigoids
               http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
               Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
               http://www.sccaners.org

[Wagner]

The colorblocks 8x6 pixel can be set independent from each other. 256 foreground and 256 background colors. If this matrix is filled with PATTERN1,0,0,0 you can display 65000 colors in this matrix.

Sounds like photo-realistic quality to me.  I have seen no such thing, either here or on my 128.

[papa_november]

The "risen from oblivion" demo is able to get visuals that are easily as colorful as those produced by this software. I have no idea why the VDC upgrade board it comes with uses one of the ROM sockets, though. It's probably just a quirk in the design.

[RobertB]

...I can send an e-mail to my friend, Dirk K....

No word back from Dirk in Germany.  I can only assume that he has no information on it, either. 

                Truly,
                Robert Bernardo
                Fresno Commodore User Group
                http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                The Other Group of Amigoids
                http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
                Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
                http://www.sccaners.org

[RobertB]

No word back from Dirk in Germany.

Dirk responded today, "i have information about the Graphics booster but i have to find it."  O.K., that means he has it in his small apartment or in the storage deep in the Dienstagstreff bunker. 

               Hopeful,
               Robert Bernardo
               Fresno Commodore User Group
               http://videocam.net.au/fcug
               The Other Group of Amigoids
               http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
               Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
               http://www.sccaners.org

[wte]

Ha, ha, nice discussion.

First of all: There is no need for any other hardware on a C128DCR!
The GB hardware is only a 64KB extension for the VDC (only needed for the flat C128).
What you really need is the (SCPU patched) software available on my homepage
And I strongly recommend a 1901 Monitor a 1084 is a "weak replacement".
There IS a EPROM available! (I don't have it) This EPROM supports higher resolution for standard functions and features a BASIC editor with 50 lines etc. You don't need it for HiRes-Graphics.

You have 16 colors! 16 foreground and 16 background colours! There is no magic!
You can "mix" colors if you use 2 pixel lines => 16*16 = 256. That's it.
[There are some demo programms on my homepage to show this effect.]
To get 256 of 3000 colours the authors used their fantasy: There is a "shade" command / function. This function shifts the whole colour-space by adjusting (mis-adjusting) the position of the first visible dot (I forgot the related VDC register number). This does not work on each monitor and is monitor specific. Therefore it is worthless.

Regards WTE

[commodorejohn]

Here's a thought that's...sort of tangentially related: EGA monitors are basically compatible with CGA (i.e. RGBI) video signals. If one made a connector that intercepted the R, G, B, and I signals but passed the sync information through intact, the RGBI color value could be used as an index into a palette of 6-bit EGA color values (which I assume you'd set up for CPU access somewhere in the I/O block through the expansion port,) which could be passed through to an EGA monitor, giving the VDC a 16-color palette out of a total of 64 colors.

Not that it would be revolutionary or widely useful, but it might be a fun hardware project if someone has an EGA monitor sitting around...

[Blacklord]

Not that it would be revolutionary or widely useful, but it might be a fun hardware project if someone has an EGA monitor sitting around...

It would, I have an IBM ECD monitor that I use on an XT - nice display.

[RobertB]

There IS a EPROM available! (I don't have it) This EPROM supports higher resolution for standard functions and features a BASIC editor with 50 lines etc.

Can you tell us where the EPROM is found available?


Merry Christmas!
Robert Bernardo

Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[RobertB]

...it might be a fun hardware project if someone has an EGA monitor sitting around...

I have an EGA monitor for my C128DCR.

Merry Christmas!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[Blacklord]

...it might be a fun hardware project if someone has an EGA monitor sitting around...

I have an EGA monitor for my C128DCR.

And it works without any modifications ?

[RobertB]

And it works without any modifications ?

Yes, it works.

Merry Christmas!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[Blacklord]

Excellent - I'll try it out.

[redrumloa]

I've played around a tiny bit with the interlace mode of the VDC, but the flicker is unbearable. What's worse is RGB -> SVGA adapter I am using in my tower can't handle interlace at all, no output at all to the SVGA monitor. Now that the Indivision is available for most Amiga models, I would think the older external units would be more economical second hand.

How possible would it to be to convert something like a Toastscan for 128 80 column use? Anyone tried this?

[wte]

There IS a EPROM available! (I don't have it) This EPROM supports higher resolution for standard functions and features a BASIC editor with 50 lines etc.

Can you tell us where the EPROM is found available?

I've never seen one in real live. And I could never get a rom dump

Regards WTE

[commodorejohn]

Excellent - I'll try it out.

Cool! Make sure to post some pictures if you can!

[Blacklord]

Excellent - I'll try it out.

Cool! Make sure to post some pictures if you can!

Will do - about to go away for five days, so will do it once I get back.

Initially determined that it does work, but haven't tested intensities yet.

EGA pinout:

Pin    Name    Function
1    GND    Ground
2    SR    Secondary Red (Intensity)
3    PR    Primary Red
4    PG    Primary Green
5    PB    Primary Blue
6    SG    Secondary Green (Intensity)
7    SB    Secondary Blue (Intensity)
8    H    Horizontal Sync
9    V    Vertical Sync

This is different to the C128's output:

1 Ground
2 Ground
3 Red
4 Green
5 Blue
6 Intensity
7 Monochrome
8 HSync
9 Vsync

My initial suspicion is that the intensities won't all be there. I'm also a little concerned about pin 2 being a ground.

Lance

[RobertB]

How possible would it to be to convert something like a Toastscan for 128 80 column use?

I was speaking to the Amiga hardware tech of TOGA today.  He said that converting a Toastscan would not be possible (and Toastscan is hard to find and expensive).  However, he liked the older XRGB-2 Plus and the newer XRGB-3 (but also expensive).  Now whether the XRGBs work for the C128's 80-column mode is something that needs to be studied.

Happy New Year!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[Blacklord]

Excellent - I'll try it out.

Cool! Make sure to post some pictures if you can!

Well, the pics ain't too good, so I won't publish However, all colours display correctly on an EGA monitor!

[RobertB]

However, all colours display correctly on an EGA monitor!

  Now if I can find these programs mentioned at

http://www.go64.de/english/online_e/06_00_2e.htm

I could then try them out with the EGA monitor and my C128DCR.

Happy New Year!
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
http://www.sccaners.org

[redrumloa]

Now if I can find these programs mentioned at

http://www.go64.de/english/online_e/06_00_2e.htm

I could then try them out with the EGA monitor and my C128DCR.

That is quite interesting, gives me something to think about. Thanks Robert.