So.. I just got my first C128 in...

[quarkx]

Hi all,
So, I just got my first C128 in (flat). It didn't come with a P/S (That is coming- Thanks Robert ) so, I am going to clean it down tonight and carefully crack it open to clear out the cobwebs.
Any suggestions or anything I am to look for once it's open, before the initial power up?
Also it came with a mouse. The mouse looks like an Amiga "Tank" mouse, is there anyway to tell if this is an "official" C128 mouse (the seller didn't know). I suspect that it is indeed an Amiga mouse for it is the exact same shape size ETC of all my other Amiga mice (I have about 20 in stock) . All the sticker on the bottom says is "Commodore B90 30497 made in Malaysia" which is almost the same as my other Amiga mice, but the number is different.
I am not sure if I can use an Amiga Mouse on a C128. On some other forums , there was discussion, but no one knew for sure (on Amiga forums) maybe you true 128's will know.
-Thanks

[RobertB]

So, I just got my first C128 in (flat).

Yay!  A newbie in the house. 

It didn't come with a P/S (That is coming- Thanks Robert )

Postage from California to Calgary, Alberta, Canada is a killer.

Any suggestions or anything I am to look for once it's open, before the initial power up?

Well, you can clean the finger contacts on the user port and cassette port with a pencil eraser and/or denatured alcohol.  Also, make sure that there is dielectric grease on the fingers of the motherboard shield that make contact with the all important chips.

Also it came with a mouse. The mouse looks like an Amiga "Tank" mouse, is there anyway to tell if this is an "official" C128 mouse (the seller didn't know).

Yeah, a Commodore 1351 mouse looks almost exactly like an official Amiga mouse.  The difference is that the Amiga mouse has a metal collar around the sub-D 9-pin plug, and the Commodore doesn't have such a metal collar.

...it is the exact same shape size ETC of all my other Amiga mice (I have about 20 in stock).

More than I have in storage! 

I am not sure if I can use an Amiga Mouse on a C128. On some other forums , there was discussion, but no one knew for sure (on Amiga forums) maybe you true 128's will know.

No, an Amiga mouse will not work on a C128, and a Commodore mouse will not work on an Amiga.  (I've tried.)

                 Truly,
                 Robert Bernardo
                 Fresno Commodore User Group
                 http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                 The Other Group of Amigoids
                 http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
                 Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
                 http://www.sccaners.org

[quarkx]

Thanks Robert,
It does indeed have the metal collar on the plug (and the enlarged plug). I kind of figured that a C128 with the Proper mouse would be a bit much to ask on an Auction (and my luck) LOL.

[Hydrophilic]

If you're opening the case and removing the RF shield (assuming it has one), then I'd check the ROMs to see if it has the original (c)1985 ones that are buggy.  These are labeled U32, U33, U34, and U35... well I think U33 is the C64 ROM so it's probably old anyway...

Of course once you get your P/S, it's easy to tell because the screen will say (c)1985 and CAPS LOCK will not work with Q.  If you're lucky it may have Jiffy DOS ROMs.  If unucky, then you can start looking to get upgraded ROMs or JiffyDOS now before your P/S arrives.

You might also be intereseted in the the revision of your VDC and it has 64K VRAM upgrade.  It's inside the large metal box and may have the cover removed if it has the RAM upgrade.  The upgrade would look like a riser board cramed into that metal box (unless somebody did a pro job and soldered the motherboard directly)

There should also be a big empty socket near the center of the board.  If you got no empty socket, then you got a free Function ROM, like the Servant or BASIC 8 or something.

If I remember correctly, there is a fuse by the power switch that you could check (but maybe I'm thinking of the C64 or the C128's power brick).

Have fun!

[quarkx]

Thanks Guys,
All excellent suggestions. I have not got at the "Opening" yet. I just went back to work after having that nasty flu for 3 weeks, and I haven't had the time to really get into it. I am also trying to hunt down some nice heat sinks for it to get rid of those crappy (and annoying) RF shields Commodore loved to use in all their computers. Man the Amiga 1000's alone could count as a second case for it. I have been watching for ROMS on E-bay, And I have yet to decide which ones to go with. I wanted the Jiffy Dos, GEOS and Servant ROM, but I am also leaning towards BASIC 8. In another thread, there talking about four Roms and a switch, But I am probably going to eventually get all four (2 with 2 on them) and decide as I go along. I just want to get the proper 1571 drives first. Nobody seems to use the 1541's with the C128.
The Video Ram upgrades auctions on Ebay have been dying lately. It use to be they were there all the time, with BIN's all over the place, Now it seems like they have run out and nobody is making any more (maybe a market to step into?) Is 64K the max?

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

If you want C128 function ROMS, just let me know, I've got them all

If you have en EPROM burner, I can mail you the files containing the ROMS. If not, I probably can provide some burning service for you

64K is the max since the VDC chip only has 16 addressbits (like the processor) so it can only address 64K.

[quarkx]

Thanks for the offer SCD,
I don't have a burner, and money is tight because of no income for 3 weeks, but I will keep it in mind for the future. Is it worth it to have GEOS in the ROM though? My 128 will be a slow project though, I have so much Amiga stuff to do also. Man if I was rich and could take 2 years, I don't think I could even get through all my Amiga projects, never mind the 128 -LOL
Plus, I have about 2000 Amiga floppy disks to go through and cataloge and the Amiga club wants me to go through more and burn them to CD for Archives.

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

Time and money, always the two things you have too little of

Have a look at the thread in the forum here:

http://www.commodore128.org/index.php?topic=2645.msg12330#msg12330

It might be an interesting device for you

If you are going to use GEOS, then yes, it's very good to have it in the ROM. Since GEOS takes a while to load, even if you have a 1571, starting it will be a lot faster with the GEOS kernal in ROM. If you add a REU like the 1700/1750/1764 or a clone, then you can create a RAM disk with the GEOS desktop in it, which means that after a reset you will load the entire GEOS OS from ROM and RAM. Sweet

A note to your earlier post, most people that have a C128 prefer the 1571 over the 1541. The reason is that it supports double the disc capacity since it reads (and writes) from both sides of the disc. But most notably, it supports burst mode which makes it (a lot!) faster than the 1541.

A note though, in C64 mode the 1571 acts as a 1541 clone.

BTW, if you want to download the most popular C128 function ROMS you can click the links below If you want to see them in action you can test them in VICE.

GEOS 128
Basic 8
KeyDos
The Servant

[Blacklord]

One of the things I want to do now is keep an eye out for a hard drive & REU - both will be expensive

[airship]

A note though, in C64 mode the 1571 acts as a 1541 clone.

Mostly true. You can send a command to make it act like a 1571: "U0>M1"
However, you will only get the increased capacity, not the faster speed.

[quarkx]

Time and money, always the two things you have too little of

Have a look at the thread in the forum here:

http://www.commodore128.org/index.php?topic=2645.msg12330#msg12330

It might be an interesting device for you

If you are going to use GEOS, then yes, it's very good to have it in the ROM. Since GEOS takes a while to load, even if you have a 1571, starting it will be a lot faster with the GEOS kernal in ROM. If you add a REU like the 1700/1750/1764 or a clone, then you can create a RAM disk with the GEOS desktop in it, which means that after a reset you will load the entire GEOS OS from ROM and RAM. Sweet

A note to your earlier post, most people that have a C128 prefer the 1571 over the 1541. The reason is that it supports double the disc capacity since it reads (and writes) from both sides of the disc. But most notably, it supports burst mode which makes it (a lot!) faster than the 1541.

A note though, in C64 mode the 1571 acts as a 1541 clone.

BTW, if you want to download the most popular C128 function ROMS you can click the links below If you want to see them in action you can test them in VICE.

GEOS 128
Basic 8
KeyDos
The Servant

OOOOO! You have me! just a mater of the cash, Sadly probably not until the new year though. Yes, I am hunting down 2 -1571's, I will be getting them from Robert. I also am hunting down an REU. Oh so much fun hardware, so little cash...

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

A note though, in C64 mode the 1571 acts as a 1541 clone.

Mostly true. You can send a command to make it act like a 1571: "U0>M1"
However, you will only get the increased capacity, not the faster speed.

I stand corrected

[RobertB]

One of the things I want to do now is keep an eye out for a hard drive & REU...

If you are willing to give up compatibility, you can order one of the far cheaper SD/Compactflash card drive solutions in lieu of a CMD hard drive.  Currently, there are the SD2IEC from NKCElectronics.com and the uIEC/SD or uIEC/Compactflash (with IDE connector) from Jim Brain.  These will work in C64 or C128 mode.
    There is also the 1541-III (though I don't know if it is in stock right now), and there is the 1541 Ultimate II (which is not in production yet).  IDE64 v4.1 does not work in C128 mode, other than using extra C128 keys in C64 mode.

            Spending the night at the California/Oregon border,
            Robert Bernardo
            Fresno Commodore User Group
            http://videocam.net.au/fcug
            The Other Group of Amigoids
            http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
            Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
            http://www.sccaners.org

[RobertB]

Oh so much fun hardware, so little cash...

All you have to do is pace yourself. 

             Which is what I'm doing in expanding
             my Amiga computers,
             Robert Bernardo
             Fresno Commodore User Group
             http://videocam.net.au/fcug
             The Other Group of Amigoids
             http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
             Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
             http://www.sccaners.org

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

There is also the 1541-III (though I don't know if it is in stock right now), and there is the 1541 Ultimate II (which is not in production yet).

Do you know if the 1541 Ultimate (and Ultimate II) used in stand-alone mode, i.e not connected to the expansion port, will work in C128 mode too?

When attached to the expansion port, C64 mode is probably activated on power-up?

[Diddl]

Do you know if the 1541 Ultimate (and Ultimate II) used in stand-alone mode, i.e not connected to the expansion port, will work in C128 mode too?

Yes! a 1541-u works standalone with all IEC bus computer: C-64, VIC, C-128

When attached to the expansion port, C64 mode is probably activated on power-up?

Works in one of my 128-D. The other don't work ...

Maybe it is cause C-128 has a very dirty bus timing, not 100% compatible with C-64

[SmallCleverDinosaur]

When attached to the expansion port, C64 mode is probably activated on power-up?

Works in one of my 128-D. The other don't work ...

Maybe it is cause C-128 has a very dirty bus timing, not 100% compatible with C-64

That sounds strange. Do the other C128's switch to C64 mode when you have the 1541u in the expansion port? And your C128-D does not?

Or does the C128 never switch to C64 mode with the 1541u?

[RobertB]

...a 1541-u works standalone with all IEC bus computer: C-64, VIC, C-128

The Commodore Plus4, too.

               Now in the Portland, Oregon area,
               Robert Bernardo
               Fresno Commodore User Group
               http://videocam.net.au/fcug
               The Other Group of Amigoids
               http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
               Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
               http://www.sccaners.org

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving! 

[quarkx]

Ok, so here is an update all 
I just got in my Power Supply, system disks and manuals for Robert (Thanks again Robert)
Wow, the Power Supply is a LOT heaver then an Amiga power supply! I noticed it has a fuse also. In Brian's book, it mentioned that Bil had originally put a fuse in and some Manager took it out and rubbed Bil's nose in it. looks like he got it back in (properly).

I did take the 128 apart (I was board on Friday night). It looked like it had never been apart, but it was clean of dust inside. It was stock, no upgrades. I ordered in 2 passive heat sinks in from China (5 bucks a piece with shipping) and a VDC upgrade, so I am waiting for those to arrive, before firing her up (she is still apart) I am waiting to see if I can get the double ROM for GEOS and Basic 8, but I will probably get that other ROM that was mention before. January.....

[RobertB]

I ordered in 2 passive heat sinks in from China (5 bucks a piece with shipping)...

Oh, in a big city like Calgary, there are no electronics parts shops/warehouses that have bins of items like heatsinks?  I'm thinking of places like http://www.weirdstuff.com or http://www.halted.com

               Back from Los Angeles,
               Robert Bernardo
               Fresno Commodore User Group
               http://videocam.net.au/fcug
               The Other Group of Amigoids
               http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
               Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
               http://www.sccaners.org

               

[quarkx]

I don't know about Calgary, I am in Edmonton, (about 3 Hours north). Yes, we do have shops,but they are on the other end of the City, and for heat sinks (I did call around) the cheapest was $25. With no car, and a wacky work schedual, and the fact that it hit -22 this weekend, having them deliver 2 my door was a no brainer for less then $5 a piece. 

[RobertB]

I don't know about Calgary, I am in Edmonton, (about 3 Hours north).

Ack!  Sorry about that... I was thinking of Calgary and the AMiga Users of Calgary (AMUC) club there.  Yeah, check with the Commodore Users of Edmonton's (CUE) Bruce Thomas.

Yes, we do have shops,but they are on the other end of the City, and for heat sinks (I did call around) the cheapest was $25.

Hmm, at the shops I was referencing, heatsinks go from a few cents to a dollar or two.

With no car, and a wacky work schedual, and the fact that it hit -22 this weekend, having them deliver 2 my door was a no brainer for less then $5 a piece. 

Minus -22!  And we're complaining that it'll reach 26 F. here in central California. 

                And the heater in my main car is not hot enough,
                Robert Bernardo
                Fresno Commodore User Group
                http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                The Other Group of Amigoids
                http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
                Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
                http://www.sccaners.org

[quarkx]

Yes, last Tuesday, we had barely any snow (just a skiff, and temperatures of plus 6 (about 43F), then on Friday, the snow hit, about 3-5 inches over the weekend, and the wind, it is piled up to about a foot in some places. They didn't even plow the streets until Saturday night. The temperature dropped down to about -20 (-4F) and has not really warmed up, Right now for example (its 6:15 am) and its -27. I have to go and catch a bus for work in about an hour, so I have to really bundle up and were one of those full face touques, not to mention the long undies. Winter is a real pain here in Alberta. Last year, it was the same thing, and once the temperature dropped in Dec, it did not warm up again to above 0 until March or April.It's no wonder my parents usually go to Yuma (Arizona) for the winter -Dad thought he would skip this year (for once) and now he is really regretting it LOL

[quarkx]

If you're opening the case and removing the RF shield (assuming it has one), then I'd check the ROMs to see if it has the original (c)1985 ones that are buggy.  These are labeled U32, U33, U34, and U35... well I think U33 is the C64 ROM so it's probably old anyway...

Just an update: I have the unit open, so I have checked the ROMS. U32 is 1984 (I suspect this is the C64 ROM by the date). U33-U35 are 1985. How do I get upgrades?

Also, I am ready to spend my $20 on the ROM mentioned earlier, but I can't find any links or intructions on how to get one. Please send HELP

Thanks as always.
-G

[RobertB]

Just an update: I have the unit open, so I have checked the ROMS. U32 is 1984 (I suspect this is the C64 ROM by the date). U33-U35 are 1985. How do I get upgrades?

Hmm, I don't see any C128 ROM upgrade chips available.  Perhaps you can ask Ray Carlsen or Francois "Eslapion" Leveille if they have them.

Also, I am ready to spend my $20 on the ROM mentioned earlier, but I can't find any links or intructions on how to get one.

Are you speaking of the Megabit 128 ROM adapter?  If so, just leave a personal message to Megabit here on this site.

                Truly,
                Robert Bernardo
                Fresno Commodore User Group
                http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                The Other Group of Amigoids
                http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
                Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network
                http://www.sccaners.org