The ultimate 8-bit computer

[Blacklord]

Likewise, buying/making some heat sinks or fans for my computers might be a good idea...

Yeah, I've done this one to my metal 128D (fan mod). fairly important for me as the temp here often goes into the mid 30's over summer & the machines can get hotter.

This one is really simple to do (you don't even need soldering skills) & is a very worthwhile mod.

cheers,

Lance

[Golan Klinger]

The idea of booting up to a 100% compatible C128 clone system which can access PC devices as if they were real serial devices should be easy to do, relatively speaking.  Anyone care to convert VICE to a full fledged operating system?

That would be great but unfortunately VICE is far from 100% compatible and therein lies the problem. It's good enough for some and not nearly good enough for others.

[Murple]

Speaking of heat sinks... I found a product that should be of interest to Commodore users. I went to the computer store today looking for small fans, and found heat sinks you need. They're made by some company called BFG Tech, and sold as "Graphics Card Memory Sinks." Theyre meant as heat sinks for the RAM chips on fancy new graphics cards, but they are just about perfect size and shape for various MOS chips. They come in a package of 10 sinks, with 3 sizes in the pack. Theyre already backed with thermal tape. Just $14 for them all! Some of them are even thin enough for use in standard C128s and C64Cs... and they should all fit well in the C128D, original C64, and Amigas. I'm going to go apply them now!

[adric22]

The idea of booting up to a 100% compatible C128 clone system which can access PC devices as if they were real serial devices should be easy to do, relatively speaking.  Anyone care to convert VICE to a full fledged operating system?

Well, there is a DOS version of VICE, you know.   I'm sure you could tweak DOS enough that it would appear the unit boots straight to VICE.

[hydrophilic]

Well, there is a DOS version of VICE, you know.   I'm sure you could tweak DOS enough that it would appear the unit boots straight to VICE.

You sure can.  My Windows boot menu offers Commodore as an operating system!  Selecting this option boots a thin DOS with its own menu; there you choose C64, C128, CBM-II, or Plus4.  :cool: Its silly, but I like it.

[Golan Klinger]

hydrophilic: That's not silly -- it's awesome. Any idea how slow of a computer one can get away with and still have VICE perform reasonably well? (Where reasonably well means 1:1 speed with a 128, for instance.) I guess what I'm askings is, what's the minimum configuration necessary to enjoy the DOS version of VICE? Maybe I should make a bootable DOS partition on my USB memory drive and install DOS there. That might come in handy.

Just for laughs I downloaded VICE for DOS and tried running xvic using DOSBOX. It took forever to come up (slow slow slow) but it worked! Why did I do this? I have no idea. It's cool and totally useless.

[Blacklord]

hydrophilic: That's not silly -- it's awesome. Any idea how slow of a computer one can get away with and still have VICE perform reasonably well? (Where reasonably well means 1:1 speed with a 128, for instance.) I guess what I'm askings is, what's the minimum configuration necessary to enjoy the DOS version of VICE? Maybe I should make a bootable DOS partition on my USB memory drive and install DOS there. That might come in handy.

Just for laughs I downloaded VICE for DOS and tried running xvic using DOSBOX. It took forever to come up (slow slow slow) but it worked! Why did I do this? I have no idea. It's cool and totally useless.

I'm running DOS VICE on a 400MHz machine - seems to be fine, I've got slower machines - should test on them as well - wonder how it'll go on my Commodore P75

cheers,

Lance

[Murple]

I suspect you could run it on a pretty slow PC, if all it was running was a non-GUI OS like DOS or non-X Linux/*nix and then VICE. You can run VICE in modes that are way faster than a real Commodore, so I'm guessing there's a good deal of wiggle room there. Maybe I'll try adding a LILO boot to start up Linux in single user mode and spawn off VICE, just for laughs.

[Guest]

Using an AMD K6-2 overclocked to 500mhz I get a max speed of 263% running DOS Vice 1.21 with no sound.  I don't have a sound card in that computer, so I would suspect the performance would go way down if I put one in and turned sound on.

[airship]

I've actually given a lot of thought to this, and would like to see something like this:

C-One Based Perfect 8/16-bit Computer System

Hardware:

20MHz 65816 (no additional CPU socket)
ATX format motherboard
internal expansion header for hackers
Instant On via flash 'ROM'
Monster SID sound - no real SIDs*
Stereo audio in/out
SuperVIC video w/VGA out
Video expansion connector
Ethernet
4 USB 2.0 ports
1 RS232 serial port
1 Parallel port
'Universal' reconfigurable cartridge port
4MB-128MB multimedia RAM (SD-RAM slot)
16MB-1GB system RAM (SIMM slot)
PS/2 or USB keyboard and mouse
2 Atari style joysick ports
Universal compact flash reader
Standard IDE PC hard disks (IDE64?)
CD-R standard (CD-ROM, DVD, & DVD-R supported)
3.5" & 5.25" floppy drives
Catweasel universal floppy controller?
2 universal Expansion slots for old connectors - floppy drives, analog joysticks, etc.
2 PCI slots for SCSI, modem, etc.
Custom ATX case(s) available

Native O/S:

65816 Multitasking OS
RAMdisk use of any unused RAM
Extended video modes
Native application suite
Integrated Internet applications
Full access to all computer resources

Emulation:

Commodore 128 (wiThout CP/M*, but with VIC-20, C64, and PET series modes)
Apple ][GS (with Apple I, Apple ][, Apple ][+ modes)
Atari 800 (with 400 and other series modes)
Acorn [for Europe]
Direct hookup to emulated computers for file transfer
No cassette support*
HD & CD-ROM filesystem emulation
6502/65816-based legacy game machines (Atari 2600/5200/7800, NES & SuperNES, etc.)

Compatibility:

Direct hookup to Windows & Linux machines for file transfer & Internet access
File import/conversion/export functions for Excel, Word, graphics formats
Compatible Web browser & email apps
Internet Video player w/common codecs
MP3 player
Flash & other plug-in compatibility

* = Leave these for hardware & software hackers

[Guest]

If it uses a 65816 then it's not an 8-bit system.

[Blacklord]

If it uses a 65816 then it's not an 8-bit system.

True enough as far as the comment goes, but is is capable of working in both 8 & 16 bit mode.

It is really an enhanced 6502 - 13 original 6502 modes with 92 instructions using 256 op codes (including some new opcodes from the 65C02).

So you could get away with saying it's an 8 bit animal.

cheers,

Lance

[airship]

The 65816 can run 6502 code natively, without modification or emulation. That's 8-bit enough for me.

[Guest]

An Intel 80386 will run 8008 code without emulation too.  Do you want to call a 386 an 8-bitter?

[hydrophilic]

Let's not forget that some Commodore software uses undocumented 6502 opcodes NOT supported by the 65816... I can't say about Apple software.

But since the dream is to also support (S)NES software, a 65816 would be neccessary.

[Guest]

The Apple II comes in two flavors: Enhanced and unenhanced.  The unenhanced machines use a standard 6502.  The enhanced machines use a 65c02.  Software that targets the 65c02 CANNOT be run on unenhanced Apple II systems.  Even the enhanced ROMs won't work without the 65c02.

[airship]

The thing is, I like the idea of a SuperCPU128 with 2M or more of 128-compatible banked RAM, a huge 2M or more 1750 compatible REU, the Retro Replay cart, RRNet, IDE64, SuperVIC graphics, multi-voice SIDs, CatWeasel universal floppies, etc., etc., but NOTHING gives me all of that in one machine. You have to either pick and choose, or build multiple systems with different capabilities. I want it all. For cheap. Is that too much to ask?

[8502]

(resurrects 12 month old thread...)

Much as I love the 6502, the Motorola 6809 is an assembly language programmers wet dream and the ultimate 8-bit computer would surely use one as its CPU.

How I wish the C128 had one instead of the Z80.  In fact, the C128 with a 6809 would be the ultimate 8-bitter

[gsteemso]

Actually, I kinda like the idea of a 12-bit machine. I've spent ages over the last couple of years trying to design one, based loosely on Commodores and the x5xx family — but I keep getting carried away and adding so many features (extra accumulators, hardware divide and multiply, vector operations...) that I never seem to get anywhere with it. Oh well, it's a fun exercise.