Output to VGA?

[nikoniko]

Is there an adapter to convert the 128's 80 column output to VGA? I found a site for something called the C= VGA Adapter, but since the page hasn't been updated more than a year after they took preorders, I'm assuming it never materialized. (Hope those people got their money back if it was cancelled.)

After more than a decade suffering without a 128, I'd like to buy one again this year, but I always have bad luck when any sort of monitor is shipped to me. No matter how well packed, UPS or FedEx always finds a way to damage it. So if I can use a PC monitor, at least until I can find a local source for a Commodore model, that would be a huge plus.

I suppose this is also an option:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Commodore-128-to-TV-video-cable-40-80-column-mode-NEW_W0QQitemZ260074073635QQihZ016QQcategoryZ74945QQcmdZViewItem]Commodore%20128%20to%20TV%20video%20cable%2040%20&%2080%20column%20mode

I have a video capture card which supports S-Video and RCA connectors, so I could pipe the output through that cable to the card. The 80-column output would be monochrome, but I could probably stand that since I can use VICE (with my modified palette) to check 80 column colors. 40 columns would be in color through the RCA outputs.

[xlar54]

I think that link is vaporware. As far as I have read, including from comp.sys.cbm, that there really isnt anything to do RGBI to VGA for the 128.  What Ive always wondered though, is if there is a means to get the RGBI through a PC's video capture card, then to the VGA monitor. It would of course require a PC in between, but it would be good for folks who couldnt get their hands on a 1084 or 1902.

Like you, it kills me that the 128 has so much trouble interfacing with modern equipment...harddrives, monitors...etc.. its kinda scary to know that the hardware is old and wont be around as time goes on.  I tend to treat my 1084 with the greatest respect since the last one I had died shortly after I got it. The real 128 doesnt get alot of use because of it, and I end up just using VICE.  If I could get the 128 to use the PC as a harddrive, saving my 1581, and VGA monitor, saving my 1084, Id definitely use it MUCH more frequently.  lol... my poor 1571 never gets used - mainly because I dont have any 5 1/4 disks!

[Mangelore]

Since you could always use a CGA monitor for the 80 column mode, maybe the following device will do the trick?

www.converters.tv/products/converters/rgb_converters/41.html

Hmm, the spec sheet lists RGB Analog as Input signals... I think the RGBI output from the C128 is digital so maybe it won't work.

[nikoniko]

What Ive always wondered though, is if there is a means to get the RGBI through a PC's video capture card, then to the VGA monitor. It would of course require a PC in between, but it would be good for folks who couldnt get their hands on a 1084 or 1902.

Yeah, that's basically what I think that second cable I linked to above would do. It sends a monochrome 80 column signal through S-Video and color 40 columns to RCA. My capture card takes both S-Video and RCA inputs by using a little adapter that came with it, so I think for only the additional cost of the $10-$15 cable I could use a 128 with my PC. I imagine it would at least work with the normal display, though I have no idea what what happen if one made the 128 do 640x600 or something.

If I can't find a real monitor locally, I'll probably give that a try rather than pay to have a heavy 1084 (or 1902? they can also be used for the 128, right?) shipped to me.

Like you, it kills me that the 128 has so much trouble interfacing with modern equipment...harddrives, monitors...etc.. its kinda scary to know that the hardware is old and wont be around as time goes on.

I hope someone will decide the 128 is worthy of re-creation through FPGA, whether as part of the C-One project or a separate effort. FPGA opens up so many possibilities for expansion which have been difficult or impossible to achieve with the original hardware.

Since you could always use a CGA monitor for the 80 column mode, maybe the following device will do the trick?

www.converters.tv/products/converters/r ... rs/41.html

Hmm, the spec sheet lists RGB Analog as Input signals... I think the RGBI output from the C128 is digital so maybe it won't work.

*Sigh* Such a simple goal, yet it turns out to be so complicated to accomplish.

I've just seen an RGBI to SCART converter, and I know SCART can be easily converted to VGA, so I think that's another possible option. I would think that should make it possible to preserve the color portion of the signal, unlike the RGBI to S-Video adapter being sold on eBay.

[adric22]

I think that link is vaporware. As far as I have read, including from comp.sys.cbm, that there really isnt anything to do RGBI to VGA for the 128.  !

Actually, there is.  I don't have the link handy, but it was posted on comp.sys.cbm some time ago.  It was a commercial (or industrial) device for converting a CGA signal to VGA.  No mention of being tested with the C128 and I doubt it ever will as its list price was like $500.  But in theory, the device would work.

[Blacklord]

What about this - http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html ? Considering the 128 will output to a standard CGA monitor this just might be a hackable option.

[Mangelore]

This project looks interesting...

http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/vga.html

[6502Dude]

This project looks interesting...

http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/vga.html

Interesting - yes.

However, it appears to be vaporware

[Guest]

What about this - http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html ? Considering the 128 will output to a standard CGA monitor this just might be a hackable option.

This looks like something awesome as it could be installed in my 128DCR fairly easily.  At $150 it's no more expensive than an Amiga flicker fixer and in the ballpark of the C= VGA project (which I think is a pipedream at $99).

I could even power the converter off the 128DCR's power supply.  This looks like it might be the ultimate 128 mod.

[Mangelore]

Wouldn't the cheaper AUS$99 VGA 640x480 one do the job?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/1495.html

Or would the C128 80 column output look any better on the AUS$141 800x600 one?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html

[Guest]

Wouldn't the cheaper AUS$99 VGA 640x480 one do the job?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/1495.html

Or would the C128 80 column output look any better on the AUS$141 800x600 one?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html

The 640x480 one looks good because it doesn't have the added expense of the the VGA passthrough (and it would have less impact on my computer's case and probably draw less power).  I do wonder, however, how either of these would react to custom timings on the VDC, such as what you can do with 640x400 and 640x600 resolutions. If the 800x600 would provide more flexibility for custom timings then that would be preferable.  

It's interesting that you are quoting AUS$99 and AUS$141 as the website is showing $106 USD and $141 USD.  Maybe I should get one of you Aussies to buy one and ship it to me.

[Mangelore]

It's interesting that you are quoting AUS$99 and AUS$141 as the website is showing $106 USD and $141 USD.  Maybe I should get one of you Aussies to buy one and ship it to me.

My apologies. I must have been half asleep when I was looking at the prices.

[Mangelore]

Hi guys,

It seems the CGA to VGA (800x600) device is manufactured in Taiwan
http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=111&pid=118&top_fid=

The Wei-Ya model number is ACV-011. A further google search for ACV-011 listed a few other worldwide resellers like
http://8linesupply.com/product.php?productid=16690&cat=251&page=1

The price at 8linesupply.com seems more affordable than the highway group in Australia but they are out of stock.

[nikoniko]

RobertB, if you're reading this, I noticed that you're listed as having preordered the C=VGA device. Over on comp.sys.cbm there were a few mentions from October and November that someone had spoken to Allan and confirmed that the device is working and complete, but that arrangements with a distributor in Florida need to be finished before it can go on sale.

Just wondering if you've heard anything?

[RobertB]

RobertB, if you're reading this, I noticed that you're listed as having preordered the C=VGA device.

Yes.  I also gave extra money to fund the project.

Over on comp.sys.cbm there were a few mentions from October and November that someone had spoken to Allan and confirmed that the device is working and complete, but that arrangements with a distributor in Florida need to be finished before it can go on sale.

Yes, I saw that.  (By the way, that info did not come from me.)

Just wondering if you've heard anything?

No, I have not heard anything.  Of course, I could always give Allan Bairstow a phone call to find out what's happening with the C=VGA.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[nikoniko]

Oh, don't bug him on my behalf. As long as I know it might come out eventually then I'll be happy. I hope he'll be able to work things out with his distributor.

I know the final price haven't been announced yet, but would you have a ballpark guess about the price range? Do you think the $100 AUS (maybe about $75 US) I'm going to win in the game coding competition will be enough to cover it? Or will I need to sell a kidney, too? :/

[RobertB]

I know the final price haven't been announced yet, but would you have a ballpark guess about the price range?

If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be in the $40-50 US range.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[Mangelore]

Hi guys,

Since my Commodore 1901 monitor blew up a few weeks ago and filled the house with smoke, I decided that my next project was going to be a C128 to VGA converter. The goal is to  share a PC monitor with both my PC and the C128.

Finding a 40 colum to VGA converter should be easy. All that's required is an S-Video to VGA converter (available around AUS$50 on eBay.com.au) with a custom made cable, or find an LCD monitor that accepts an S-Video input. My preference is to go with the second option as there's one less device to worry about on the desk.

However, my main concern was how to get the RGBI 80 column output to display on a VGA monitor. After investigating a few options I decided to purchase and try the ACV-011 board. I received it in the mail today and after a little soldering and testing I'm happy to report that it works.

At the moment, the quality of the screen text is very similar to the output seen when using VICE. It's not perfect but does the job. If I get some free time on the weekend I'll try to run a few more tests using a couple of different monitors and playing around with the DIP switches on the board.

Cheers
Fotios

[Mark Smith]

Cool!  Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?

[Mangelore]

Cool!  Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?

Sure thing. Not sure where to dump them though. Lance, can I place them on the ftp server somewhere? Maybe a projects folder?

[nikoniko]

Thanks for working on this! I look forward to hearing more about it.

When you have time to do further testing, I hope you'll check how it handles interlacing and other display modification. Maybe try a term program that supports more than 25 lines? And then of course, there's the almost obligatory Risen from Oblivion test...

[RobertB]

When you have time to do further testing, I hope you'll check how it handles interlacing and other display modification. Maybe try a term program that supports more than 25 lines?

That would be Desterm, which can go to 50 lines.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

[Blacklord]

Cool!  Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?

Sure thing. Not sure where to dump them though. Lance, can I place them on the ftp server somewhere? Maybe a projects folder?

Yup - feel free.

Lance

[Mangelore]

Hi guys.

Well, I've had some time to run a few tests and take a few photos using my digital camera. It wasn't easy taking a photo of the monitor screen, so my apologies if some shots are a little out of focus.

Anyway, first the good news is that most 80 colum screen modes are displayed OK to a VGA screen. However, the most serious limitation with this board is that it only supports the first 8 available colours. The reason it can not display the full 16 available colours is due to the lack of support for the Intensity pin available on the C128 RGBI output.

The screen quality of Geos 128 running on a Hitachi CM753ET CRT SVGA monitor was fantastic. Here's a closeup shot. I haven't resized the image so when you zoom in to 100% size you'll get an idea of the quality.
[img=http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5189/geoshv8.th.jpg]

Basic 8 worked fine. Here's a screen shot of the Basic 8 Paint program
[img=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3226/basic8paint1wa7.th.jpg]

Closeup of some 80 column text
[img=http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/228/text1ji0.th.jpg]

The default screen in Desterm was displayed ok. I didn't take a shot as there was only one line of text. I'll get more shots later.

Here's a photo of the CGA to VGA converter board mounted in a small project box
[img=http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/864/board1ic0.th.jpg]

To give you an idea of the size of the board, here's a shot with a pen on top of the box
[img=http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1130/box1au6.th.jpg]

I've just tested the Risen from Oblivion VDC demo and all screens were displayed but some lacked a few colours due to the missing last 8 colours. However, the interlaced screens looked great.

Can't wait to get an LCD monitor now...

[Blacklord]

Can't wait to get an LCD monitor now...

Send me the box & I'll tell you what it looks like :rodna:

Seriously though - looking good - you plan on building & selling these as a completed item ? If so, you've got your first order! (My 1081 has finally died & I'm using a Commodore 1701 at the mo - so only can do 40 columns).


Cheers,

Lance